Coronavirus (OLD)

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Paul

The "Midlands" is a huge area, they could have separated out East & West.

You really have to look at the map to understand which area you're in. Eg Northamptonshire is sometimes put in East of England, and other times East Midlands. In this case, it's Midlands.


As the map says, it refers to "NHS England regions".

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

The "Midlands" is a huge area, they could have separated out East & West.

Indeed, and it's going to be important going forward that this information (whether public or not) is used at an even more granular level - so that restrictions and interventions are genuinely targeted at the areas that need it - villages and towns.

[1andrew1]

Pretty sure everyone will agree this makes sense. Let's hope a deal can be agreed.

LONDON/BRUSSELS, July 3 (Reuters) - Britain is discussing with the European Union whether it will join a plan by the bloc to secure supplies of potential vaccines against COVID-19, officials in London and Brussels said on Friday.
The UK-EU talks, first reported by the Financial Times, represent a test of the cooperation required to tackle international emergencies after Brexit.
The EU is planning to spend around 2 billion euros ($2.3 billion) on the advance purchase of vaccines in testing, on behalf of the 27 EU states.
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has said she is trying to convince "a significant number" of world leaders to join forces and buy vaccines up front together, as competition for a vaccine could otherwise raise the cost for everyone.
"We have reached out to the UK, inviting them to express their interest if they want to participate in the joint EU approach established by the vaccine strategy," a Commission spokesperson said.
"Discussions are now ongoing with the UK."

https://news.trust.org/item/20200703150200-bcayz/

[jfman]

Well that depends really. If the UK found the vaccine we should extract maximum revenue from the rest of the world for it. That's exactly what the United States would do, so good practice for us.

It's just statistically improbable that we would, so yes hedge our bets.

Mismanagement of the virus is likely to make a vaccine pointless anyway. While it might prevent more serious outcomes, it is likely to start to wearing off after 3 months to 1 year (like the flu jab) so it's now a certainty to remain within the global population for years to come to a greater or lesser degree. Great news for the capitalists who thought that the long game was better for economic outcomes.

Previous generations fought wars for years and we couldn't support (as a planet) everyone sitting on their arse for three months. I think that says a lot about us really...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Pretty sure everyone will agree this makes sense. Let's hope a deal can be agreed.

https://news.trust.org/item/20200703150200-bcayz/

Say we put in 10% of the cost(probably would be a lot more), how much of any vaccine would we get back? 1%, 2%? If we ended up producing 20% of it, how much would the EU allow as to keep? With the EU, it's all about control.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Say we put in 10% of the cost(probably would be a lot more), how much of any vaccine would we get back? 1%, 2%? If we ended up producing 20% of it, how much would the EU allow as to keep? With the EU, it's all about control.

.... and that's why the UK Guvmin will give this careful thought. It might even be that the EU needs the Oxfords developed vaccine and have nothing themselves.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technolog...ine-supply-eu/

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Say we put in 10% of the cost(probably would be a lot more), how much of any vaccine would we get back? 1%, 2%? If we ended up producing 20% of it, how much would the EU allow as to keep? With the EU, it's all about control.

Nonsense. If you read the article, it's all about a bulk-buying scheme so that we don't bid against each other and inflate the prices to daft levels. As happened with PPE.

I suspect BoJo fans will like the proposal, as they can say we can pick and choose which EU aspects we sign up to and yes we can have our cake and it eat.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Nonsense. If you read the article, it's all about a bulk-buying scheme so that we don't bid against each other and inflate the prices to daft levels. As happened with PPE.

I suspect BoJo fans will like the proposal, as they can say we can pick and choose which EU aspects we sign up to and yes we can have our cake and it eat.

So the EU decides who gets what. Say the EU orders 400m doses, but how many would we be allowed to have? If the UK alone produced 100m doses, how many of those would we be allowed to use?

Doesn't matter what the price the EU offers, somebody else out there is always going to outbid. The price of PPE went up mainly to individual customers. EU suppliers aren't going to charge outrageous prices, because it would be a PR nightmare.


Looking further down in your link, we already have an order in place for 100m.
Link

Meanwhile, Oxford University signed a global licensing agreement with AstraZeneca for the manufacturing and commercialisation of their vaccine candidate. If the vaccine is successful, AstraZeneca will produce up to 30 million doses by September for people in the UK.
The agreement is for the pharmaceutical company to deliver a total of 100 million doses.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Nonsense. If you read the article, it's all about a bulk-buying scheme so that we don't bid against each other and inflate the prices to daft levels. As happened with PPE.

I suspect BoJo fans will like the proposal, as they can say we can pick and choose which EU aspects we sign up to and yes we can have our cake and it eat.

Nonsense. If you read the article, it's all about a bulk-buying scheme so that we don't bid against each other and inflate the prices to daft levels. As happened with PPE.

Sort of true (it's really to secure supply) - but it doesn't invalidate Nomad's point that the EU is all about control and that's what the Guvmin will be weighing up.

I suspect BoJo fans will like the proposal, as they can say we can pick and choose which EU aspects we sign up to and yes we can have our cake and it eat.

You can't resist the dig, can you. Your point is stilted beyond reasonableness.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So the EU decides who gets what. Say the EU orders 200m doses, but how many would we be allowed to have? If the UK alone produced 100m doses, how many of those would we be allowed to use?

Doesn't matter what the price the EU offers, somebody else out there is always going to outbid. The price of PPE went up mainly to individual customers. EU suppliers aren't going to charge outrageous prices, because it would be a PR nightmare.

Drugs aren't produced by states, they're produced in states by drugs companies. This is consortia purchasing. If you get how this works then you will understand how the remainder of your post makes little sense.

---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You can't resist the dig, can you. Your point is stilted beyond reasonableness.

It's actually a spot-on point and I could see objections to this from EU member states. It's not a dig, that's a disappointingly defensive suggestion. It actually allows BoJo to face his critics in the eye and own the cake and eat argument.

---------- Post added at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Sort of true (it's really to secure supply) - but it doesn't invalidate Nomad's point that the EU is all about control and that's what the Guvmin will be weighing up.

From what I've heard, the government's weighing up money saved v any donations and votes lost from hard line Eurosceptics so is consulting the latter, who are positive about it.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Drugs aren't produced by states, they're produced in states by drugs companies. This is consortia purchasing. If you get how this works then you will understand how the remainder of your post makes little sense.

---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 ----------


It's actually a spot-on point and I could see objections to this from EU member states. It's not a dig, that's a disappointingly defensive suggestion. It actually allows BoJo to face his critics in the eye and own the cake and eat argument.

Perhaps you missed my additional point, about the UK already has an order in place for 100m. Why would we need to pool it with the EU, and only perhaps get 20m doses?

Business Secretary Alok Sharma said: “Our scientists are at the forefront of vaccine development. This deal with AstraZeneca means that if the Oxford University vaccine works, people in the UK will get the first access to it, helping to protect thousands of lives.

---------- Post added at 11:06 ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 ----------

The real reason for low death rates in places like Japan and South Korea?
Link

He thinks it is possible a Sars-like virus has circulated in the region before, which may account for the low death rate, not just in Japan, but in much of China, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and South East Asia.

Japan didn't do anything much.

This is particularly striking because Japan has many of the conditions that make it vulnerable to Covid-19, but it never adopted the energetic approach to tackling the virus that some of its neighbours did.

Although it helps not having a population of morons.

There is no "Factor X" - like everywhere else it has depended on the same thing - breaking the chain of transmission. In Japan, though, the government can count on the public to comply.
Despite not ordering people to stay at home, on the whole, they did.
"It was lucky but also surprising," Prof Shibuya says. "Japan's mild lockdowns seems to have had a real lockdown effect. Japanese people complied despite the lack of draconian measures."
"How do you reduce contact between infected and uninfected people...? You need a certain kind of response from the public, which I don't think is going to be so easily replicated in other countries," adds Prof Fukuda.
Japan asked people to take care, stay away from crowded places, wear masks and wash their hands - and by and large, that is exactly what most people have done

AstraZeneca is producing it for everyone - it’s a global multi-national corporation, with loyalty or preferences for no one country...

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufac...swamped-by-new

As COVID-19 continues to rampage across the globe, Brazil stands alongside the U.S. as the countries hardest hit with new infections and deaths. But AstraZeneca and its vaccine hopeful could be coming to save the day now that the drugmaker and Brazilian government have reached a new supply pact.

AstraZeneca and the government of Brazil have inked a deal valued at $127 million to produce doses of the University of Oxford's adenovirus-based COVID-19 vaccine candidate, AZD1222, as the country combats a rising count of new infections.

Brazil—which trails only the U.S. in terms of total reported COVID-19 cases and deaths—will make available around 30 million finished doses of the vaccine, with roughly half that amount available by December, AstraZeneca said. Brazil has also committed to produce an additional 70 million doses, with AstraZeneca supplying the unfinished vaccine at no cost.

"In accordance with AstraZeneca's commitment globally, the company will supply the vaccine to countries without considering profit during the pandemic, understanding that this is a global problem and that it needs an answer considering the impact on global public health," an AstraZeneca spokeswoman said in an email.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

AstraZeneca is producing it for everyone - it’s a global multi-national corporation, with loyalty or preferences for no one country...

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufac...swamped-by-new

As the quote says, "without considering profit". It's mainly an issue of reserving output.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

Well that depends really. If the UK found the vaccine we should extract maximum revenue from the rest of the world for it. That's exactly what the United States would do, so good practice for us.

I am surprised you say this. Applying pure capitalism to something that is chronically needed by the whole world is immoral. Putting aside the greed, who do you think would benefit from these profits? Would 3rd world countries be able to afford these prices or would we just let them die?

---------- Post added at 14:32 ---------- Previous post was at 14:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

AstraZeneca is producing it for everyone - it’s a global multi-national corporation, with loyalty or preferences for no one country...

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufac...swamped-by-new

This is the only solution that should be considered ..

[Sephiroth]

Not with my tax payer’s money.