Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

See what I mean, everybody?

Mr M nicely equivocates on the divisions but won't accept the Referendum result. He ignores my comparison of a vote in Parliament with a majority of 1 to a Referendum result to which the guvmin commits, which Mr M doesn't like with a 4% majority.


That is perpetuating divisions and has to stop.

Disagreeing with your premise is not perpetuating divisions, no matter how many times you say it - "perpetuating divisions" is using hateful language and refusing to accept that other peoples' views, if backed up by evidence, are allowed to to be voiced.

ymmv

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Mr K's value is that he almost accurately reflects the Terry Thomas I remember.

Ridiculing member's like this just adds fuel to the fire. I suggest you debate the points he raises instead?

---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

See what I mean, everybody?

Mr M nicely equivocates on the divisions but won't accept the Referendum result. He ignores my comparison of a vote in Parliament with a majority of 1 to a Referendum result to which the guvmin commits, which Mr M doesn't like with a 4% majority.

That is perpetuating divisions and has to stop.

You really need to accept that, in this country, people are allowed to hold different views and importantly, allowed to voice them.

You believe that Germany, France and Ireland are in an evil EU conspiracy, etc. You are wrong of course but you are quite entitled to repeat such nonsense .. as you due ... regularly ..

What may possibly help to bring the two sides together are two things:

1. some honesty in admitting that there is no mandate for No Deal per the Leave campaign "manifesto"
2. stop treating Brexit as a "Winner Takes All" game. The vote was so close that imposing an extreme implementation of Brexit would be a severe mistake. History tells us this ..

[Angua]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You need to have some level of evidence to support that.......

To be fair, remain whilst vocal has not attracted the yellow vest style of supporter.

Leave has support from both left and right, just not so much from the middle, with a small section of the right using leave to bolster their racism.

Either way, threats of violence should not be allowed to stifle debate or as an excuse to carry on as we are.



---------- Post added at 15:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:12 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Ridiculing member's like this just adds fuel to the fire. I suggest you debate the points he raises instead?

---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 ----------



You really need to accept that, in this country, people are allowed to hold different views and importantly, allowed to voice them.

You believe that Germany, France and Ireland are in an evil EU conspiracy, etc. You are wrong of course but you are quite entitled to repeat such nonsense .. as you due ... regularly ..

What may possibly help to bring the two sides together are two things:

1. some honesty in admitting that there is no mandate for No Deal per the Leave campaign "manifesto"
2. stop treating Brexit as a "Winner Takes All" game. The vote was so close that imposing an extreme implementation of Brexit would be a severe mistake. History tells us this ..

It was the Remain side of the referendum said No Deal was an option. So it seems doubly ironic that the Leave side are trying to take ownership of the claim.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Angua

To be fair, remain whilst vocal has not attracted the yellow vest style of supporter.

Leave has support from both left and right, just not so much from the middle, with a small section of the right using leave to bolster their racism.

Either way, threats of violence should not be allowed to stifle debate or as an excuse to carry on as we are.



---------- Post added at 15:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:12 ----------



It was the Remain side of the referendum said No Deal was an option. So it seems doubly ironic that the Leave side are trying to take ownership of the claim.

Which is why I asked in an earlier post if it was not possible that remain protests would become more violent if/when Brexit passes. The only reason we're not seeing more of it is because we haven't actually left yet.

Let's not assume that all remainers are above that sort of behaviour it's a dangerous precedent to set.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

What may possibly help to bring the two sides together are two things:

1. some honesty in admitting that there is no mandate for No Deal per the Leave campaign "manifesto"
2. stop treating Brexit as a "Winner Takes All" game. The vote was so close that imposing an extreme implementation of Brexit would be a severe mistake. History tells us this ..

point (1) . . mandate or not, it's getting closer to it every day

point (2) . . doesn't matter how 'close' the vote was, one side won, one lost.

If a horse wins a race by 10 mm they don't ask for a re-run because it was too close to be a result. If you avoid a car crash by 6 inches, nobody suggests having another try

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Carth

point (1) . . mandate or not, it's getting closer to it every day

point (2) . . doesn't matter how 'close' the vote was, one side one, one lost.

If a horse wins a race by 10 mm they don't ask for a re-run because it was too close to be a result. If you avoid a car crash by 6 inches, nobody suggests having another try

If they find out the loser of the horse race gets shot, they might

[Carth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

If they find out the loser of the horse race gets shot, they might

You're confusing horse racing with that 'I'm a celebrity' stuff . . admittedly it would probably increase the viewing figures though

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Carth

You're confusing horse racing with that 'I'm a celebrity' stuff . . admittedly it would probably increase the viewing figures though

Am I? Thank's for clearing that up.

[djfunkdup]

Originally Posted by Carth

You're confusing horse racing with that 'I'm a celebrity' stuff . . admittedly it would probably increase the viewing figures though

Totally agree.Reality is somewhat different lol

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Carth

point (1) . . mandate or not, it's getting closer to it every day

point (2) . . doesn't matter how 'close' the vote was, one side won, one lost.

If a horse wins a race by 10 mm they don't ask for a re-run because it was too close to be a result. If you avoid a car crash by 6 inches, nobody suggests having another try

For me a mandate = a majority of those who can vote. Not a majority of those who did vote.

Anything else is no more than slightly larger percentage of those who voted chose one particular option over another. Not a resounding approval of any one option.

This is, and always has been the problem with a binary vote referendum with a non binary answer.

Please tell me who, of either leave or remain, chose the option to leave with an open ended agreement with the EU?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Angua

For me a mandate = a majority of those who can vote. Not a majority of those who did vote.

Anything else is no more than slightly larger percentage of those who voted chose one particular option over another. Not a resounding approval of any one option.

This is, and always has been the problem with a binary vote referendum with a non binary answer.

would it help matters if we said that those who didn't vote (but could do so) actually abstained?

Does this alter anything now we've given it a posh word?

Any vote has 3 possible answers yes - no - abstain

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Carth

would it help matters if we said that those who didn't vote (but could do so) actually abstained?

Does this alter anything now we've given it a posh word?

Any vote has 3 possible answers yes - no - abstain

No government since the 1930s has had over 50% of the vote, but they all claim a mandate.

Comparing the result to a race is a bad analogy. Whichever way the result is spun, the majority did not vote in a positive way for either leave or remain.

63% did not vote leave. 66% did not vote remain.

In other words a majority did not vote positively for either option. Nor was there any opportunity to vote for the deal May is trying to get.

And none of this now matters as we had a general election in which no party got a mandate for their particular version of Leave.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Hope Brexiteers are listening as most of the vitriol/hate has come from that side.

FFS

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Ridiculing member's like this just adds fuel to the fire. I suggest you debate the points he raises instead?[COLOR="Silver"]

<SNIP>

It was intended as a compliment to Mr. K. Not back-handed but absolutely benign and well meant.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Come on man, you're better than that

All together now......

"Oh no he isn't"