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Brexit (Old)
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Old 25-11-2018, 17:14   #3736
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Re: Brexit

I’m unsure where these “huge immigrant waves” went. Even if I accepted the point, if not the emotive terminology, EU citizens living, working and paying tax in the UK is a good thing.

Is there a long term plan to improve the economy from leaving? By when will we match the pre-Brexit economy?
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Old 25-11-2018, 17:37   #3737
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
If you think social services, the health service and housing are at breaking point because of the EU then you are ignoring the chronic underinvestment as a result of austerity.

I’m unsure what tedious regulations you refer to. Can you give me an example of a business idea that will be viable on 30th March 2019 that isn’t viable today because we are in the EU? The claim seems at odds with the CBI stance on the matter. VAT isn’t going anywhere, and in fact cross border trade might be more bureaucratic.

You may want a more prosperous Britain, however you can’t tell me how this will be achieved post Brexit.
What, the austerity that was necessary after Labour's mismanagement of the economy which left the incoming coalition with no money?

The point is, we cannot keep taking in more and more people. You must surely see that there has to be a limit.

We will be free of a lot of that EU legislation that fetters the ability of our businesses to compete. We will negotiate trade deals that better meet our requirements, re-establishing our links with the Commonwealth countries when we abandoned them on joining the Common Market, we will have more trade with developing African markets and we will be joining other trading blocs to increase trade on favourable terms. At the same time, trading with the EU will remain much the same as it is now.

Britain has a brilliant future outside the EU and personally, I can't wait to see this reality.

---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
I’m unsure where these “huge immigrant waves” went. Even if I accepted the point, if not the emotive terminology, EU citizens living, working and paying tax in the UK is a good thing.

Is there a long term plan to improve the economy from leaving? By when will we match the pre-Brexit economy?
How can ever increasing immigration be a good thing when our services cannot cope with what they are dealing with now?

If Theresa May gets her deal through Parliament, I doubt that we will be taking a financial hit. Why would we?
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Old 25-11-2018, 17:41   #3738
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Re: Brexit

From May's letter to the nation.

Quote:
Instead, we will be able to spend British taxpayers' money on our own priorities, like the extra £394 million per week that we are investing in our long-term plan for the NHS
I'm sure I've seen something like this before.
Was it on the side of a bus?
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Old 25-11-2018, 17:42   #3739
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
From May's letter to the nation.



I'm sure I've seen something like this before.
Was it on the side of a bus?
A bit less, actually!
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Old 25-11-2018, 17:47   #3740
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
From May's letter to the nation.



I'm sure I've seen something like this before.
Was it on the side of a bus?
Politicians talk is cheap as we all know , actual deliverance is far harder..
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Old 25-11-2018, 17:47   #3741
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Re: Brexit

If someone comes to the country, works and pays tax yes that’s a good thing.

If from that tax the Government (and it’s consecutive governments of both colours) underfunds public services that’s the problem of Government, not the migrant. Housing underpins most problems in this country, but it will never be adequately solved because of the wealth held and borrowing against house prices.

Many immigrants work in our public services, supporting them rather than taking from them.

You still haven’t cited an example of EU legislation making business worse off. It’s just the usual generic waffle about trade deals (as yet undefined) and a better future (maybe). Back to the glory days of Empire with the Commonwealth trade deals.
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Old 25-11-2018, 17:47   #3742
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
I’m unsure where these “huge immigrant waves” went. Even if I accepted the point, if not the emotive terminology, EU citizens living, working and paying tax in the UK is a good thing.
[SEPH]: Indeed EU citizens settling in the UK as you say are a good thing. But in times of austerity, borrowing more ahead of their tax revenues was not government policy; nor was raising taxes to make headroom. The guvmin was caught between the proverbial rock/hard place to add to the woe of incompetence. Btw, the "huge immigrant waves" added up to over 3 million, I think. As I said, I've never had a problem with the free movement of labour. I have a problem with the hegemonic EU elite.

Is there a long term plan to improve the economy from leaving? By when will we match the pre-Brexit economy? [SEPH]: I look forward to a more competent, non-Communist government in the near future who will develop a proper prosperity growth plan.
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Old 25-11-2018, 18:18   #3743
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Re: Brexit

Are you saying that the current Tory government is communist?
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Old 25-11-2018, 18:29   #3744
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
If someone comes to the country, works and pays tax yes that’s a good thing.

If from that tax the Government (and it’s consecutive governments of both colours) underfunds public services that’s the problem of Government, not the migrant. Housing underpins most problems in this country, but it will never be adequately solved because of the wealth held and borrowing against house prices.

Many immigrants work in our public services, supporting them rather than taking from them.

You still haven’t cited an example of EU legislation making business worse off. It’s just the usual generic waffle about trade deals (as yet undefined) and a better future (maybe). Back to the glory days of Empire with the Commonwealth trade deals.
There is a limit, jfman. You can't just keep taking more people in. We are a small country and we don't need a further increase in our population.
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Old 25-11-2018, 18:38   #3745
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Re: Brexit

We actually do need an increase in working age population and taxpayers to fund pensions. There’s plenty of space in the country as well, however the London/South East centred economy isn’t encouraging distribution of the population as a whole.

Solving these underlying issues should be far more important than “ending freedom of movement”. I’m also willing to bet something half baked comes from this and net migration figures will remain relatively unchanged. But we will have put two fingers up to Brussels, reclaimed sovereignty, etc etc.
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Old 25-11-2018, 18:51   #3746
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
If someone comes to the country, works and pays tax yes that’s a good thing.

If from that tax the Government (and it’s consecutive governments of both colours) underfunds public services that’s the problem of Government, not the migrant. Housing underpins most problems in this country, but it will never be adequately solved because of the wealth held and borrowing against house prices.

Many immigrants work in our public services, supporting them rather than taking from them.

You still haven’t cited an example of EU legislation making business worse off. It’s just the usual generic waffle about trade deals (as yet undefined) and a better future (maybe). Back to the glory days of Empire with the Commonwealth trade deals.
But the tax they are paying is tax that somebody already in the UK could be paying instead. Their only contribution to GDP is their own consumption. Eg Food and that usually has to be specially imported from THEIR countries.
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Old 25-11-2018, 18:52   #3747
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
We actually do need an increase in working age population
I can never understand people saying this, when the unemployment figures show there are a few million sitting on their backsides.

Once again, probably the fault of various Governments paying more in benefits than some people earn
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Old 25-11-2018, 19:00   #3748
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
But the tax they are paying is tax that somebody already in the UK could be paying instead. Their only contribution to GDP is their own consumption. Eg Food and that usually has to be specially imported from THEIR countries.
I’d be amazed if the statistics showed that EU citizens in the UK specifically import anything but a small amount of items from their home country.

You are also making the flawed assumption that the UK has people with the skills or motivation to do the jobs being done by EU nationals.

---------- Post added at 18:00 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
I can never understand people saying this, when the unemployment figures show there are a few million sitting on their backsides.

Once again, probably the fault of various Governments paying more in benefits than some people earn
Ah the benefit scrounger, one level above the immigrant in the Brexit social hierarchy. Again these are underlying problems that won’t be solved by ending freedom of movement.
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Old 25-11-2018, 19:14   #3749
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
I’d be amazed if the statistics showed that EU citizens in the UK specifically import anything but a small amount of items from their home country.

You are also making the flawed assumption that the UK has people with the skills or motivation to do the jobs being done by EU nationals.

---------- Post added at 18:00 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------



Ah the benefit scrounger, one level above the immigrant in the Brexit social hierarchy. Again these are underlying problems that won’t be solved by ending freedom of movement.
Eg There was a TV programme where a Czech Roma couple had arrived in Rotherham with TWENTY-TWO of their children and grandchildren. Only one of them had a job. So they, along with an estimated 6,000 other Czech Roma just in Rotherham had to be housed, funded with benefits etc. The fallacy is that enough of the 3m EU residents actually contribute.



So is the stock in all the Eastern European shops produced in the UK?
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Old 25-11-2018, 19:17   #3750
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Politicians talk is cheap as we all know , actual deliverance is far harder..
So the PM gets a free pass on telling a lie to the to the nation whereas the leave campaign got pilloried for even suggesting it by those who can't tell the difference between a suggestion and a promise?
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