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Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
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Old 16-10-2019, 21:21   #1321
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

This Brexit is so dragged out that the conversation has been reduced to the above!
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Old 16-10-2019, 21:36   #1322
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
This Brexit is so dragged out that the conversation has been reduced to the above!
It’s been worse than that for a long time.

In my mind, this deal has to go through.

MPs need to ponder long and hard on the consequences if they block this. They will have solved nothing or stopped nothing and everyone has had enough.

For me, the May deal was enough ( and I said so at the time), although I could appreciate the backstop issues.

If this deal somehow gets around all of that and more, then it has to fly.

Bottom line is we will get nothing better, ever. It’s this or no deal.

But the remainers plan is to keep the nation in limbo ad infinitum, until we stay. Rejecting this deal, then Continually rejecting no deal, when there isn’t a deal apart from this deal, on the table, ........for ever.
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Old 16-10-2019, 21:44   #1323
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
It’s been worse than that for a long time.

In my mind, this deal has to go through.

MPs need to ponder long and hard on the consequences if they block this. They will have solved nothing or stopped nothing and everyone has had enough.

For me, the May deal was enough ( and I said so at the time), although I could appreciate the backstop issues.

If this deal somehow gets around all of that and more, then it has to fly.

Bottom line is we will get nothing better, ever. It’s this or no deal.

But the remainers plan is to keep the nation in limbo ad infinitum, until we stay. Rejecting this deal, then Continually rejecting no deal, when there isn’t a deal apart from this deal, on the table, ........for ever.
The central point is with the backstop in place, it is job done, as far as Ireland is concerned. No future deals need to be done. That is why any interim(check your dictionary) "deal" must not include it. It is designed solely to prevent the possibility of future deals.
Link

Quote:
The Irish goal was to get the border into a legally binding withdrawal agreement – Dublin’s point of maximum leverage – rather than future trade relations, when Dublin would struggle to be heard.
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Old 16-10-2019, 21:52   #1324
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
The central point is with the backstop in place, it is job done, as far as Ireland is concerned. No future deals need to be done. That is why any interim(check your dictionary) "deal" must not include it. It is designed solely to prevent the possibility of future deals.
Link
The backstop was an EU requirement, it came from this statement from Barnier.

Quote:
"It consequently seems essential for the UK to commit to ensuring that a hard border on the island of Ireland is avoided, including by ensuring no emergence of regulatory divergence from those rules of the internal market and the Customs Union which are (or may be in the future) necessary for meaningful North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the Good Friday Agreement."
To avoid a hard border there has to be “regulatory alignment” between North. And South. This is the fundamental issue that has to be overcome.

It isn’t politics or ideals, it is paperwork.
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Old 16-10-2019, 21:54   #1325
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Wow 0.0000057% that voted for Brexit. So representative of the hope and dreams of the voters.

Possibly the hardest of the hard line brexiteers................so average.
I didn’t think there was hard line or extreme Brexiteers. I thought there was only one type.
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Old 16-10-2019, 22:02   #1326
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

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I didn’t think there was hard line or extreme Brexiteers. I thought there was only one type.
Nah you’ve been misinformed, don’t you remember? After the vote they were all recategorised.
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Old 16-10-2019, 22:08   #1327
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
The backstop was an EU requirement, it came from this statement from Barnier.



To avoid a hard border there has to be “regulatory alignment” between North. And South. This is the fundamental issue that has to be overcome.

It isn’t politics or ideals, it is paperwork.
The Irish came up with it before the referendum took place.
Quote:
Enda Kenny, the then taoiseach, ordered the first Brexit impact study in 2014. Officials identified the impact on the economy, diplomatic ties, and crucially the Good Friday agreement and what Brexit would mean for the border.

...
After the shock of the no vote sunk in, Kenny quickly assembled a team of almost 100 people to work on Brexit. He beefed up embassies across EU capitals to convey a stark message: the border was not just about protecting the single market, it was about peace.
...
In October[2016] Kenny agreed with the European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, that technical talks between officials in Brussels and Dublin would open. They met again in January 2017 and agreed “there was no technical solution” to the border.
They were beginning to realise that only a political solution – specifically, regulatory alignment between Northern Ireland and the EU – could avert a hard border. This was the genesis of the backstop.
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Old 16-10-2019, 22:09   #1328
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Looks like the only thing holding it up is the DUP and their 'consent' mechanism in N.I. It seems Ireland responded to the U.K.'s concession over the border with a concession of their own but it might not be enough for the DUP who want a veto themselves rather than a simple majority of the assembly.

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------

Quote:
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The Irish came up with it before the referendum took place.
Because the problem was foreseeable.
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Old 16-10-2019, 22:10   #1329
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

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Nah you’ve been misinformed, don’t you remember? After the vote they were all recategorised.
Don't you mean effectively disenfranchised.
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Old 16-10-2019, 22:11   #1330
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
The Irish came up with it before the referendum took place.
It's a fenian conspiracy I tell you! A friend of mine, Toby Sure, just confirmed it ..
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Old 16-10-2019, 22:19   #1331
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

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Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
It's a fenian conspiracy I tell you! A friend of mine, Toby Sure, just confirmed it ..
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After Leo Varadkar succeeded Kenny in June 2017 the Irish pressed their advantage. The new taoiseach wanted a “win”, said one Fine Gael party colleague, and squeezing the Brits proved popular.
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Old 16-10-2019, 22:20   #1332
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
The Irish came up with it before the referendum took place.
No, that’s not what your post says. They “investigated it” before the referendum, no doubt as part of a Brexit Impact Analysis. But they didn’t come up with it until 2017. As per your post.
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Old 16-10-2019, 22:36   #1333
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

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No, that’s not what your post says. They “investigated it” before the referendum, no doubt as part of a Brexit Impact Analysis. But they didn’t come up with it until 2017. As per your post.
That is when the Irish it raised with the EU, not when they came up with it.
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Old 16-10-2019, 22:52   #1334
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

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That is when the Irish it raised with the EU, not when they came up with it.
Sorry, no. They flagged it internally as an issue during an impact assessment in 2014, according to your post. I’ve not Looked at any other evidence.

They didn’t enact it, so to speak, until 2017 after the referendum.

You can’t have a go at them for that, in that regard in my opinion, they have acted perfectly reasonably and as expected.
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Old 17-10-2019, 06:55   #1335
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Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

DUP issues statement saying the 'could not support' deal as it stands.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

Quote:
The DUP has issued a statement fromArlene Foster and Nigel Dodds saying that “as things stand, we could not support what is being suggested on customs and consent issues and there is a lack of clarity on VAT.
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