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Will Scotland Leave the UK?
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Old 08-06-2014, 20:30   #1516
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
.... and a great deal of time and money would have to be spent re-forging a lot of things that at present a lot of people take for granted, such as the cancer research funding arrangements under discussion today.
Yes, quite, but that is only if they wish to maintain the status quo.

Independence - if that is the outcome of the wishes of the democratic majority - will require change and self governance.
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Old 08-06-2014, 22:54   #1517
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
This has nothing to do with the Daily Express.
You don't think newspapers are putting the story as a full front page story due to how they want to the Scottish public to vote?
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Old 09-06-2014, 11:02   #1518
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Mr Angry View Post
It is obvious that independence can work. From what I've seen it is the "NO" campaign which appears to consistently paint a picture of doom.
Oh it could work and if there is a collective intelligence failure and we vote to leave I think we wouldn't immediately fall over but there is no way we would be as successful as we would as part of the UK.

The NO campaign is negative as it's being realistic, the SNP will say and do anything to get a yes vote and their promises of lower taxes, higher benefits, better public services and a free unicorn for all are being shown up.

When you have umpteen experts saying your figures don't add up you should take notice rather than just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying 'La La La, it'll be fine'
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Old 09-06-2014, 11:46   #1519
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Derek View Post
Oh it could work and if there is a collective intelligence failure and we vote to leave I think we wouldn't immediately fall over but there is no way we would be as successful as we would as part of the UK.

The NO campaign is negative as it's being realistic, the SNP will say and do anything to get a yes vote and their promises of lower taxes, higher benefits, better public services and a free unicorn for all are being shown up.

When you have umpteen experts saying your figures don't add up you should take notice rather than just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying 'La La La, it'll be fine'
Yes and if they buy all that SNP guff there's no way back from that decision. They can't suddenly decide it's all gone pear shaped and rejoin the UK at the next election. Voters need to focus on that stark reality before deciding where to put their 'X'. Salmond is Scotland's Bliar and anything he promises ought to be treated with the utmost scepticism.
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Old 09-06-2014, 12:39   #1520
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Derek View Post
Oh it could work and if there is a collective intelligence failure and we vote to leave I think we wouldn't immediately fall over but there is no way we would be as successful as we would as part of the UK.

The NO campaign is negative as it's being realistic, the SNP will say and do anything to get a yes vote and their promises of lower taxes, higher benefits, better public services and a free unicorn for all are being shown up.

When you have umpteen experts saying your figures don't add up you should take notice rather than just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying 'La La La, it'll be fine'
I appreciate all of that Derek. However, in the event that there is a yes vote then Scotland will decide what promises it fulfills and how it fulfills them if at all. The opinions of experts based on a different paradigm (ie. the current status quo) are largely irrelevant in that particular context.
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Old 09-06-2014, 22:30   #1521
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Apparently Gordy reckons that if Britain doesn't wake up it'll lose Scotland. Well we'll also lose a whole load of his mates in the Labour Party too.

Some clouds do indeed have a silver lining.
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Old 09-06-2014, 22:57   #1522
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Mr Angry View Post
I appreciate all of that Derek. However, in the event that there is a yes vote then Scotland will decide what promises it fulfills and how it fulfills them if at all. The opinions of experts based on a different paradigm (ie. the current status quo) are largely irrelevant in that particular context.
Well no because the feasibility of the promises are a central argument in this campaign. If you can have all those promises then I would imagine a lot more people would vote Yes, if you cannot then a lot more people would vote No.
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:36   #1523
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Well no because the feasibility of the promises are a central argument in this campaign. If you can have all those promises then I would imagine a lot more people would vote Yes, if you cannot then a lot more people would vote No.
As stated earlier. A newly independent Scotland, if that turns out to be the end result, can and will seek to introduce whatever changes and honour whatever promises it wishes free from the interference or influence of others. What the outcomes of the implementation might be is anyones guess but to say that with independence they "can't" do anything is simply wrong.
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:54   #1524
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Apparently Gordy reckons that if Britain doesn't wake up it'll lose Scotland. Well we'll also lose a whole load of his mates in the Labour Party too.

Some clouds do indeed have a silver lining.
Neatly solves the West lothian question and leaves Labour in opposition perminently. Some clouds are indeed silver lined.
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:55   #1525
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Mr Angry View Post
As stated earlier. A newly independent Scotland, if that turns out to be the end result, can and will seek to introduce whatever changes and honour whatever promises it wishes free from the interference or influence of others. What the outcomes of the implementation might be is anyones guess but to say that with independence they "can't" do anything is simply wrong.
It isn't, if it depends on other parties agreement/co-operation - for instance, if the Yes Campaign state that if they win, they will definitely join the EU without any waiting, and will keep Sterling as a currency, and will use the existing taxation processes, and the EU/rUK do not agree/do not allow this to happen, the Yes Campaign will be voted in on false premises (and will then, I am sure, blame the EU/rUK for not delivering with something they never agreed to in the first place).
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Old 10-06-2014, 10:00   #1526
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
It isn't, if it depends on other parties agreement/co-operation - for instance, if the Yes Campaign state that if they win, they will definitely join the EU without any waiting, and will keep Sterling as a currency, and will use the existing taxation processes, and the EU/rUK do not agree/do not allow this to happen, the Yes Campaign will be voted in on false premises (and will then, I am sure, blame the EU/rUK for not delivering with something they never agreed to in the first place).
In fairness Hugh I was referencing "promises", not negotiable aspirations.
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Old 10-06-2014, 10:01   #1527
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
Neatly solves the West lothian question and leaves Labour in opposition perminently. Some clouds are indeed silver lined.

It will also wipe out the Tory and Lib Dems as well ... hooray.
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Old 10-06-2014, 10:05   #1528
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
It isn't, if it depends on other parties agreement/co-operation - for instance, if the Yes Campaign state that if they win, they will definitely join the EU without any waiting, and will keep Sterling as a currency, and will use the existing taxation processes, and the EU/rUK do not agree/do not allow this to happen, the Yes Campaign will be voted in on false premises (and will then, I am sure, blame the EU/rUK for not delivering with something they never agreed to in the first place).
Yes at the same time as accusing their opponents of 'bullying', 'arrogance' and 'misrepresentation', the SNP has been behaving like a spoilt brat demanding what it wants from the rest of the UK and the EU then presenting those demands to the electorate as what it's going to get regardless of what anyone else thinks.
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Old 10-06-2014, 10:55   #1529
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Mr Angry View Post
In fairness Hugh I was referencing "promises", not negotiable aspirations.
Alex doesn't sound as if he is aspiring to anything, but stating a fact.....

Quote:
"The Scottish government recognises that continued membership of the EU will require negotiations on the specific terms. That is only right and proper. But these negotiations will be completed within the 18-month period between a yes vote in September and achieving independence in March 2016," Salmond said.
Grauniad 28th April 2014
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:20   #1530
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Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Alex doesn't sound as if he is aspiring to anything, but stating a fact.....



Grauniad 28th April 2014
Setting aside a free unicorn for everyone Derek, whom I was replying to, made reference to promises on "lower taxes, higher benefits, better public services" . These promises, if indeed they are promises, are all achievable under an independent Scottish Government if it is their wont to deliver same - that was the point I was making.

If Salmond states in the event that the yes vote carries that he will conclude negotiations about membership of the EU within 18 months then let him.

I see no reason to doubt his ability to do.
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