Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by Chris

Or, two and a half years in which a whole section of the British and European political establishment has worked overtime on making it look excessively complex, in the hope, if not expectation, that an eventual impasse might result in a second referendum in which that complexity could be weaponised.



The referendum campaign was fought in 2016. The Remain campaign had its chance to elucidate the complexities and risks of various post-Brexit scenarios, just as the Leave campaign had the chance to set out some of the possible opportunities. We listened, we decided, we voted. No matter how complex the implementation, the imperative to actually do the implementation is really very simple.

Or perhaps, just perhaps, it is complex and it’s easier to try and blame "others" than accept that complexity...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Bloody hell, that is exactly what the Leave campaign was saying. German cars would be more expensive. Which would result on pressure to the German government to sort out a deal.

That promise was wrong then and it's wrong now. So people may have had a lot of information... but how correct was it?

German car firms were meant to make sure we got a good Brexit deal. What happened?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...deal-happened/

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Leave campaigners promised voters that the German motor industry would send a strong signal in the event of Brexit. This information was available for all but I'm not sure this is the outcome the campaigners promised us.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47270616

That extra 10% won't go to Porsche or the EU, it will go to the UK Treasury.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Or perhaps, just perhaps, it is complex and it’s easier to try and blame "others" than accept that complexity...

That's certainly the playbook of Lord Digby-Jones. Loved the response of one Twitter user to it "Is that plan similar to my plan to win an Olympic 100m gold medal, which requires everyone else to stand still and let me win?"
https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/1095234163379261440

---------- Post added at 23:55 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The Remain campaigners warned us that this could happen Yet 52% of those voting in the Referendum still decided they wanted to Leave.

That might have been because they were told to regard such advices as "Project Fear" and to ignore it.

Originally Posted by nomadking

That extra 10% won't go to Porsche or the EU, it will go to the UK Treasury.

... if, and only if, HMG decides to slap tariffs on car imports, which it would be under no obligation to do.

The EU’s common external tariff on vehicles is 10%. But we are leaving the customs union for the exact purpose of no longer having to follow EU customs rules.

Unlike the good old days of British Leyland, we don’t have an indigenous car manufacturing base that relies on domestic sales and is vulnerable to imports. By and large, vehicles are manufactured in the UK by foreign companies as part of a broader international strategy. Zero-rating duty on car imports would not harm those operations and in fact by encouraging reciprocal arrangements would probably help them.

On the morning of 30 March, if there is No Deal, we will be free to design our own customs rules for cars which support our own transport and/or environmental strategy. Or, to help mitigate the short-term economic shock of No Deal, we could just slash tariffs on just about everything.

We will have sovereign control over our affairs and that’s the whole point of Brexit.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

That extra 10% won't go to Porsche or the EU, it will go to the UK Treasury.

Similar taxes will be applied to British-built Nissans being exported to the EU in the event of no-deal. When prices rise, demand tends to fall.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

You've only got to look at the people replying to this thread, there's at least three I've seen say they voted leave but if they knew what it'd entail they'd have voted remain, so it's untrue people know nothing new and I'll also point out I posted pre referendum that I'd have to reluctantly vote remain as I didn't have enough information on it and I wasn't the only person here that said that either, even in the tiny world of cable forum your notion that people know nothing new doesn't ring true.

People also forget, Article 50 was triggered when there was a Tory Majority government, with seemingly not even a sketch of a plan for Brexit.

Then one election later, we have a minority Tory government propped up by bribing the DUP into a confidence & supply arrangement, seemingly hell bent on leaving. May being so controlling over the process, parliament were issued with almost a fait accompli that they could not support.

So we are seemingly hanging over a precipice of a No Deal Brexit, which for some reason the hard Leavers are bizarrely claiming "every one of the 17.4 million voted for".

We this is not what I voted for when I voted Leave, and have definitely changed my mind.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Because it’s right and you can’t argue against it.

Go to bed, it’s late.

No because it's wrong and a stupid statement, according to your analogy I'd love the EU if I were married to it, when quite the opposite is true, I'm no fan at all, never have been.

Originally Posted by Angua

People also forget, Article 50 was triggered when there was a Tory Majority government, with seemingly not even a sketch of a plan for Brexit.

Then one election later, we have a minority Tory government propped up by bribing the DUP into a confidence & supply arrangement, seemingly hell bent on leaving. May being so controlling over the process, parliament were issued with almost a fait accompli that they could not support.

So we are seemingly hanging over a precipice of a No Deal Brexit, which for some reason the hard Leavers are bizarrely claiming "every one of the 17.4 million voted for".

We this is not what I voted for when I voted Leave, and have definitely changed my mind.

Stop using terms “Hard leavers”, there is no such thing. Follow first post rules or stay out of this thread !!!

No need to keep repeating yourself that you are, a few handful of people who did not know meaning leaving the EU, meant exactly that.

While you go on about there being a minority government, there has been several Amendment votes on extending A50, every vote lost. Cooper/Boles - Grieve Amendment. etc.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

Badly advised she might of been but she had the final say when it came to the decision so the buck stops with her , No ifs , no buts , no maybes.

She was persuaded she could increase her majority which would assist her with Brexit. Yes, she agreed to it, for very good reason, but it seemed like a good strategy at the time. It should be clear to you the difficulties in getting Brexit through Parliament with insufficient votes.

The social care issue scuppered the plan, unfortunately.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

Stop using terms “Hard leavers”, there is no such thing. Follow first post rules or stay out of this thread !!!

No need to keep repeating yourself that you are, a few handful of people who did not know meaning leaving the EU, meant exactly that.

While you go on about there being a minority government, there has been several Amendment votes on extending A50, every vote lost. Cooper/Boles - Grieve Amendment. etc.

You've gone from none at all to a few, I suspect the number is far greater, in fact I'd bet there is a greater number who didn't know what leaving the eu would entail than did and who can blame them, no one campaigned to leave without a deal, we were told we'd get a better deal than the one we had, it's probably why people split the leave group into moderates who want a deal and hard liners who don't.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

You've gone from none at all to a few, I suspect the number is far greater, in fact I'd bet there is a greater number who didn't know what leaving the eu would entail than did and who can blame them, no one campaigned to leave without a deal, we were told we'd get a better deal than the one we had, it's probably why people split the leave group into moderates who want a deal and hard liners who don't.

No such thing as a hardliner. If you voted to leave the EU and we leave it in it's entirety, then you're just a leaver. No hard, no extremes about it whatsoever. If you leave your car, you don't leave it hard, you just leave it, if you leave your house, you don't leave it hard, you just leave it.

No - I stand by that the "few people" might as well be none at all.

Who knows - who cares?

All irrelevant, we had a referendum, one of the largest Democratic processes in modern British history - there is no new information, except blatant scaremongering.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

You've gone from none at all to a few, I suspect the number is far greater, in fact I'd bet there is a greater number who didn't know what leaving the eu would entail than did and who can blame them, no one campaigned to leave without a deal, we were told we'd get a better deal than the one we had, it's probably why people split the leave group into moderates who want a deal and hard liners who don't.

[Sephiroth]

LBC is covering the departure from Labour of 7 MPs, disaffected with Labour’s position on the EU and anti-semitism.

I don’t think this is going to alter much in the bigger picture because the Brexit vote was about change whereas on Brexit this lot are forvRemain.

But it’s good to see Corbyn being taken apart for the Marxist anti-Semite that he is.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

You've gone from none at all to a few, I suspect the number is far greater, in fact I'd bet there is a greater number who didn't know what leaving the eu would entail than did and who can blame them, no one campaigned to leave without a deal, we were told we'd get a better deal than the one we had, it's probably why people split the leave group into moderates who want a deal and hard liners who don't.

Here we go again the leavers didn't know what they were voting for! P-lease, don't you ever give up? When I voted in the referendum, I used all my cognitive skills to work out that leaving the EU actually meant leaving.

I presume you did realise that a vote to stay in the EU meant staying?

Let us stop this nonsense and accept that most people did understand what they were voting for. The fact is, we voted to leave in the biggest voter turnout ever. This debate would be more productive if we put these old insults to bed and started figuring out how to make the best of Brexit. It's going to happen, like it or not, because that is the democratic will of the people.