Brexit discussion

Baldrick would be the intelligent sidekick of boris.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Baldrick would be the intelligent sidekick of boris.

I think Boris is intelligent but doesn't like detail. One rumour I've heard is that he knows things aren't going well with Brexit so he's trying hard to get himself sacked from the Government so his political career is not tainted by it.

This theory could be supported by two other stories reported today:

1) Theresa May admits that her two customs proposals are unworkable.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...rrent-options/
(Full article readable by registering.)

2) Brexit talks have made "little" progress since March, Michel Barnier has said. He highlighted the "risk of failure" in Northern Ireland and governance of the agreement as being the main issues.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44113686

There's a hell of a lot going on behind the scenes and neither side is very happy at the minute our biggest leverage will be discussed soon and the hardline approach the EU has taken so far will have to soften considerably unless they are willing to be in a very poor position on security and intelligence cooperation. As I've said before there is growing opposition to the approach the EU has adopted so far within the european parliament with the opinion that on the EU end it's more about punishing the UK for leaving then an open constructive process designed to get both sides an acceptable deal.

Right now i think both sides are playing games and both sides also have a deal prepared that's acceptable to both but it's like a game of chicken at the minute first one to blink gains an advantage. Germany is the most concerned right now as they will take an economical hit from brexit, Trump is getting very fed up with Germany not honouring it's NATO commitment and the German public do not want to see Germany filling most of the EU budgetary void left by the UK's leaving it's not working well on the continent and Macron has yet to release the report for the French government on the cost of Brexit to France which it's suspected show's an economical hit for France as well.

This was never one side holding all the cards as many remain and brexit supporters represented it as being and was always going to be a difficult deal to agree but it's becoming clearer that a deal has to be reached or both sides will be loser's and face difficult times. The only advantage is that once out we will not have the southern european countries with severe financial issues to deal with and if the big two in the EU do take an economical hit that situation becomes a little more precarious for the EU. I don't want to see that i want adults to start handling these negotiations so that both sides come out of it with the minimum of damage and the prospect for both constructive relations and reciprocal trade in the future.

[tweetiepooh]

Me thinks the whole EU and Euro need to be scrapped in current form and something new developed along lines of

Euro - a trade currency to allow business to trade tax free across borders with know exchange mechanisms and "free" movement of goods, materials, services. Countries then have their own currency that would trade free of the Euro, they can apply changes that suit them at the time. Taxes would be applied locally at point of sale.

Customs - each country can trade within Europe and the world as they wish. The use of the Euro within Europe controls intra European trade and the countries have their own currency to trade with the rest of the world. Some regulation may be needed to prevent one country becoming a dump route in or out.

Border control - controlled locally. It can't be hard to have channels for different countries and nation states can move countries to different channels if needed. Flexibilty if Poslovakiania become a source of concern (move to more secure channel) or the other way is also possible.

Standards - like the Kite Mark and others goods would have to pass agreed standards to receive the pass and consumers can be aware of their rights and so forth.

---
This is very woolly but the idea is to try to allow the free trade etc but also retain more national power. I know that speaking to our European guests (students) that while free movement and peace and trade are seen as good, many of their parents do not like the Euro and some don't like the way the institutions in Brussels and so on make rules their nation has to follow but doesn't always see any benefit.

[Mr K]

Personally me thinks we've made a horrendous mistake.Some have woken up and are now panicking about how they can get out of this without being blamed, all a bit late now.

Yes we are all aware of your position and your happiness to keep repeating it but despite what you think it's the right way for this country and maybe some leavers regret their vote but so do quite a few ramainers some feeling they were massively lied to during the campaign.

I sure as hell don't regret my vote to leave, if I feel that way, I guess the ones who also voted leave also do. There is no evidence people have changed their minds in a massive way.

Good article here on the Ireland problem from The Times: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...6-99299e0f1a1c

Downing Street and key ministers have been shown polling from October that suggests opinion in the province is drifting towards a united Ireland. Another finding suggests leaving the EU with no deal on the border could shift voters in Northern Ireland decisively in favour of leaving the United Kingdom and joining the Irish Republic.

Tory MPs are actively discussing the findings, with Brexiteers furiously rejecting the findings and insisting any future border poll on a united Ireland would be winnable. One European Research Group (ERG) source said Mrs May’s insistence that the union may be at risk could “amazingly quickly (amount to) signing her death warrant”, adding “I really won’t be surprised by leadership chatter this weekend.”

---------- Post added at 22:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:38 ----------

Trump might try to get the NHS to pay more for American drugs in trade talks: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...nhs-pay-drugs/

At the moment because we bulk buy them we get a hefty discount which American insurers do not get as they are more fragmented and have less buying power as a result. Instead of tackling that problem it seems Trump wants to make it more expensive for other nations. We're not being 'subsidised' by the US, we just get better deals.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

I sure as hell don't regret my vote to leave, if I feel that way, I guess the ones who also voted leave also do. There is no evidence people have changed their minds in a massive way.

Apparently, those who have changed their minds were the undecideds. Those who voted remain or leave have generally not changed their views.

Originally Posted by Damien

Good article here on the Ireland problem from The Times: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...6-99299e0f1a1c




---------- Post added at 22:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:38 ----------

Trump might try to get the NHS to pay more for American drugs in trade talks: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...nhs-pay-drugs/

At the moment because we bulk buy them we get a hefty discount which American insurers do not get as they are more fragmented and have less buying power as a result. Instead of tackling that problem it seems Trump wants to make it more expensive for other nations. We're not being 'subsidised' by the US, we just get better deals.

Isn’t that ‘Market Forces’ or ‘The Art of the Deal’?

If you have more/bulk buying power, you get better terms - if the US let Medicare/Medicare negotiate as an entity, they could do the same.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Good article here on the Ireland problem from The Times: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...6-99299e0f1a1c

Yes. More on this issue is in today's Standard.

Brexit Irish border issue ‘proving insoluble’ as May tells MPs she will not risk unity of UK
Theresa May reportedly slapped down leading Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg at a private briefing for Tory MPs at No 10 yesterday.
The Right-winger suggested that Ireland was bluffing about the need for hard border controls if Britain quits the European Union without a deal. He then predicted that unionists would win any referendum held in the province on the issue. Mrs May replied: “I would not be as confident as you. That’s not a risk I’m prepared to take.”...
He [Rees-Mogg] said an account of yesterday’s meeting in The Times was “over-written” and the question-and-answer session had been “of a uncontentious and courteous nature”.
A Tory MP who attended the briefings said Mrs May was “a firm supporter of the Union who clearly does not want to take chances with it”...
The “Brexit War Cabinet” was meeting at No 10 today to hear updates from the two working groups set up to try to find a solution to the border deal. A source said neither the “maximum facilitation” idea of using new technology nor the “new customs partnership” has yet been made to work, and that there is no alternative currently on the table.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3839391.html

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

I sure as hell don't regret my vote to leave, if I feel that way, I guess the ones who also voted leave also do. There is no evidence people have changed their minds in a massive way.

I was thinking more of the major political leave backers who can now see the oncoming shambles. Who can they blame? Theresa? The electorate? The EU? The cat ?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I was thinking more of the major political leave backers who can now see the oncoming shambles. Who can they blame? Theresa? The electorate? The EU? The cat ?

There is no 'shambles', except in the Labour Party.

Things may seem confused at the moment, but you must appreciate that the media circus is the result of there being no definitive information being released by the government on the customs union issue. However, Theresa knows exactly what she is doing, what she is aiming for and how to get there.

Despite all the hype, you will come to see that credible solutions to the problems that have been well publicised will be announced. The government is playing a little game with the public at the moment and the idea is to make us in awe of them when they finally get through these negotiations with their brilliant business know-how.

We will get through this and we will leave on time. You'll see. We will look back on these posts and have a jolly good laugh!

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

There is no 'shambles', except in the Labour Party.

Things may seem confused at the moment, but you must appreciate that the media circus is the result of there being no definitive information being released by the government on the customs union issue. However, Theresa knows exactly what she is doing, what she is aiming for and how to get there.

Despite all the hype, you will come to see that credible solutions to the problems that have been well publicised will be announced. The government is playing a little game with the public at the moment and the idea is to make us in awe of them when they finally get through these negotiations with their brilliant business know-how.

We will get through this and we will leave on time. You'll see. We will look back on these posts and have a jolly good laugh!

Would that be whilst sipping Pimms and reminiscing about the Empire?

Re "no definitive Government information" released on the Customs Union issue, what about these?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43860453

a senior Downing Street source told the BBC the government's position would not change.

"We will not be staying in the customs union or joining a customs union," the source said.

BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said Downing Street's move was an attempt to reassure Brexiteers worried about a U-turn following the Lords defeat and pressure from the EU.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...et-Theresa-May

Mel Stride, Financial secretary to the Treasury said: “What I was to refer to was to the fact that the customs union itself allows for any eventuality including entering into a customs union with another group of countries.

“It is actually within the bill not just in the context of the European Union, but actually our crown dependence.

“But in terms of where we go from here, we have made it clear that we will be leaving the customs union and I am absolutely confident that we will be doing that.”

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

There is no 'shambles', except in the Labour Party.

Things may seem confused at the moment, but you must appreciate that the media circus is the result of there being no definitive information being released by the government on the customs union issue. However, Theresa knows exactly what she is doing, what she is aiming for and how to get there.

Despite all the hype, you will come to see that credible solutions to the problems that have been well publicised will be announced. The government is playing a little game with the public at the moment and the idea is to make us in awe of them when they finally get through these negotiations with their brilliant business know-how.

We will get through this and we will leave on time. You'll see. We will look back on these posts and have a jolly good laugh!

I hope you are right! Sooner or later however, businesses need to know what the landscape will be after March next year. Order books are filling and supply chains need to be accommodated.