Brexit discussion

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'm arguing on a different plane from you.

You mean you have a different opinion. Not the metaphysical is involved in Brexit .. yet

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You mean you have a different opinion. Not the metaphysical is involved in Brexit .. yet

plane
pleɪn/
noun
noun: plane; plural noun: planes
1. a flat surface on which a straight line joining any two points on it would wholly lie.
"the horizontal plane"
synonyms: flat surface, level surface;


2. a level of existence, thought, or development.
"everything is connected on the spiritual plane"
synonyms: level, stage, degree, standard, stratum;

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

plane
pleɪn/
noun
noun: plane; plural noun: planes
1. a flat surface on which a straight line joining any two points on it would wholly lie.
"the horizontal plane"
synonyms: flat surface, level surface;


2. a level of existence, thought, or development.
"everything is connected on the spiritual plane"
synonyms: level, stage, degree, standard, stratum;

Ok, so you are "arguing on a different a level of existence, thought, or development".

Much better ...

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

We're never going to agree. I'm arguing on a different plane from you.

Fair enough. I was enjoying the discussion, finding evidence to back up my position and whatnot

[Sephiroth]

That releases me to observe that nobody took me up in my German hegemony argument.

[1andrew1]

I wonder what the Metroplitan Police will do with the referral?

Leave.EU has been fined a maximum £70,000 for breaches of electoral law during the EU referendum campaign, with the head of the pro-Brexit group referred to police...
It exceeded its statutory spending limit of £700,000 and delivered incomplete and inaccurate spending and transaction returns.
The group, which was not the official Brexit campaign, failed to include at least £77,380 in its spending return.

This means Leave.EU exceeded its spending limit by at least 10%, although the Electoral Commission believes the unlawful overspend may have been considerably higher

https://news.sky.com/story/leaveeu-f...nding-11367242

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That releases me to observe that nobody took me up in my German hegemony argument.

Not surprising really as it was aimed to just run down the EU and Germany in particular. It disregards the positive contributions made by Germany to Europe in the decades since the war.

The EU, motivated by Germany in particular has been instrumental in negating the nationalistic tendencies that have been responsible for so much loss of life in recent times. It has it's flaws like all pan-national organisations but the net value to the stability of Europe is tangible.

It is sad that the recent populist movements & decisions aim to undo this work and take us to a darker, more self-centred & insular nationalistic future.

Mr Putin is licking his lips ...

Here we go again with the whole "insular" rubbish most brexit voters are looking forward to global trade and global relationships that we set not have set for us so how are we going to become more insular??. Germany has massively benefitted from the EEC\EU for quite a while that's been their main motivation not doing the rest of us a favour. As for peace and security in europe the EU's push eastwood has caused more instability not less and talk of an EU military has only made Russia more nervous so not sure peace and security is a big plus for the EU.

The one common thread with pro EU people seems to be their belief that only the EU can keep the peace which is of course false NATO has been a far bigger peace keeper then the EU. I also have more faith in our european friends that if the EU vanished on saturday we wouldn't be at war on sunday or anytime soon.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Not surprising really as it was aimed to just run down the EU and Germany in particular. It disregards the positive contributions made by Germany to Europe in the decades since the war.

The EU, motivated by Germany in particular has been instrumental in negating the nationalistic tendencies that have been responsible for so much loss of life in recent times. It has it's flaws like all pan-national organisations but the net value to the stability of Europe is tangible.

It is sad that the recent populist movements & decisions aim to undo this work and take us to a darker, more self-centred & insular nationalistic future.

Mr Putin is licking his lips ...

How can you be so positively attracted to Germany? The context here is BREXIT.

It is not a reason to stay in the EU because Germany has managed to climb out of its horrible past and do some good things for Europe (if indeed it has). It certainly has done nothing good for us; nothing.

It is a reason to leave the EU that we have failed to get the EU to reform; it is a reason to leave the EU because German hegemony is an entrenched German interest that is contrary to ours.

European altruism is misplaced in these circumstances.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I wonder what the Metroplitan Police will do with the referral?


https://news.sky.com/story/leaveeu-f...nding-11367242

The group's founder Aaron Banks has accused this as being "a politically motivated attack on Brexit by the Electoral Commission" (the body that oversees that election law is being correctly followed).

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

How can you be so positively attracted to Germany? The context here is BREXIT.

It is not a reason to stay in the EU because Germany has managed to climb out of its horrible past and do some good things for Europe (if indeed it has). It certainly has done nothing good for us; nothing.

It is a reason to leave the EU that we have failed to get the EU to reform; it is a reason to leave the EU because German hegemony is an entrenched German interest that is contrary to ours.

European altruism is misplaced in these circumstances.

I think we will agree to differ on this subject.

This depressing but unsurprising report from the UN reinforces my point on the direction this country has embarked on:

UK has seen 'Brexit-related' growth in racism, says UN representative

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

The group's founder Aaron Banks has accused this as being "a politically motivated attack on Brexit by the Electoral Commission" (the body that oversees that election law is being correctly followed).

Well I guess he would wouldn't he I guess we can add the Electoral Commission to the pile of traitors and enemies of democracy.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I think we will agree to differ on this subject.

This depressing but unsurprising report from the UN reinforces my point on the direction this country has embarked on:

UK has seen 'Brexit-related' growth in racism, says UN representative

I don't think racism should be brought into this aspect of the BREXIT discussion.

My description of German hegemony alludes only to their economic and political goals.

If you are referring to the motives for voting leave by some of the population, you might be right. But if they were intelligent enough to have been aware of my argument, they would have voted leave on that basis.

You presumably agree with my description of German hegemony even if you don't see it as a reason to leave the EU.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I don't think racism should be brought into this aspect of the BREXIT discussion.

My description of German hegemony alludes only to their economic and political goals.

If you are referring to the motives for voting leave by some of the population, you might be right. But if they were intelligent enough to have been aware of my argument, they would have voted leave on that basis.

You presumably agree with my description of German hegemony even if you don't see it as a reason to leave the EU.

I do agree that the German economy is a strong one but then so is ours (for the time being). Their role in the EU is not a sinister one, certainly not a feudal super-state exploiting the remaining members. Their strength provides them the ability to contribute more. Without their contributions, parts of Europe would not be as well off as they otherwise would have been.

BTW, this thread is a discussion on Brexit in all its aspects including the more sinister reasons some Leavers voted for.

Racism has been increasing since new labours grand social experiment of letting million's into the country without increasing infrastructure to accomadate them and certainly isn't exclusive to brexit although brexit gets blamed for everything now good job it let's off the creator's of so many of our problem's. Racism is also increasing across the european mainland in many countries i guess that's down to brexit as well us xenophobic little Englander's inspiring our european brother's and sister's .

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I do agree that the German economy is a strong one but then so is ours (for the time being). Their role in the EU is not a sinister one, certainly not a feudal super-state exploiting the remaining members. Their strength provides them the ability to contribute more. Without their contributions, parts of Europe would not be as well off as they otherwise would have been.

BTW, this thread is a discussion on Brexit in all its aspects including the more sinister reasons some Leavers voted for.

Bearing in mind the sinister side of what I have described in my earlier post, Germany's strength/contributions to EU coffers to fund development of other EU nations is still no reason for the UK to remain in the EU.