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The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'
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Old 27-06-2018, 19:37   #16
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
No, a better idea. Let's start with the missing off-shored tax revenues and fiddled corporation taxes.
That will never be touched... too many beneficiaries in and around government.
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Old 27-06-2018, 20:33   #17
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by Mr_love_monkey View Post
You're still not answering the question.
I'm asking for a few examples - it's not a trick question. I'm just asking what you see as non-essential.
I have actually answered your question but compiling a list would take too much of my valuable time. I am amazed that you think the government spends the money they collect from you well, but I suppose ignorance is bliss.

---------- Post added at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was at 19:30 ----------

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Originally Posted by Rexz View Post
That will never be touched... too many beneficiaries in and around government.
That’s easy to say. Just to remind you, the government is trying to prevent fraud at all levels.

Some on here have an aversion to talking about those without great wealth screwing the benefits system. The truth is, all fraud has to be tackled.
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Old 27-06-2018, 21:44   #18
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I have actually answered your question but compiling a list would take too much of my valuable time. I am amazed that you think the government spends the money they collect from you well, but I suppose ignorance is bliss.

---------- Post added at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was at 19:30 ----------

That’s easy to say. Just to remind you, the government is trying to prevent fraud at all levels.

Some on here have an aversion to talking about those without great wealth screwing the benefits system. The truth is, all fraud has to be tackled.
That's a side step. He's not asking for a full list just a couple would do..
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Old 27-06-2018, 21:46   #19
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I have actually answered your question but compiling a list would take too much of my valuable time. I am amazed that you think the government spends the money they collect from you well, but I suppose ignorance is bliss.[COLOR="Silver"]
Well.... firstly, stop throwing around insults - at no point did I say I believe that the government is spending all its money wisely. I even said "I agree that there is massive waste, and poor budgeting within government organisations." - implying that I am ignorant simply because I'm asking for your opinion seems a little asinine.

Secondly, you've still not given an example of what you think is non essential - all you've done is reply with a tautologous statement :"Non essential simply means not spending on things the country doesn't need."

Thirdly, I'm not asking for a list, I'm asking for a couple of items - you listed foreign aid as one, I'm asking for 2 or 3 more items; not a fully documented alphabetised list, with references. I'm asking for your opinion. Surely you can spare some of your valuable time to give your opinion.

Fourthly, I think you're confusing 'non essential' with 'poor budgeting' & 'wasteful spending' - non essential is spending money on things that are not considered to be 'needed' - like foreign aid in your example - poor budgeting and wasteful spending would be things like spending £60 on a ream of paper from one supplier that would cost £15 if they purchased from Amazon - which is a documented example of how badly their budgets are managed.

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:46 ----------

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Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
That's a side step. He's not asking for a full list just a couple would do..
^^^ wot she said
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Old 27-06-2018, 22:18   #20
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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That's a side step. He's not asking for a full list just a couple would do..
no, he's offering him a shovel to dig himself into a hole
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Old 27-06-2018, 22:40   #21
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
That's a side step. He's not asking for a full list just a couple would do..
No, it's not a side step. If he really wanted to know, he could have Googled it. Had I got into the politics of it, that would have started another argument outside the scope of this thread.

I guess that if people genuinely are clamouring for me to answer, I could do worse than drawing to a pretty big list on the Taxpayers' Alliance website.

This is one of their offerings from 2014, but you will get the idea. I'm sure I could find you a better one, but I'm running out of time tonight.


https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/ne...teful_spending
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Old 27-06-2018, 23:03   #22
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
No, it's not a side step. If he really wanted to know, he could have Googled it. Had I got into the politics of it, that would have started another argument outside the scope of this thread.

I guess that if people genuinely are clamouring for me to answer, I could do worse than drawing to a pretty big list on the Taxpayers' Alliance website.

This is one of their offerings from 2014, but you will get the idea. I'm sure I could find you a better one, but I'm running out of time tonight.


https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/ne...teful_spending
.... surely what I wanted was your opinion. If I wanted to read someone else's opinion, I'd would have (and have) googled it.
I also note that foreign aid isn't on that list.....
You seem to be looking for issues where there are none. All I wanted to know what you thought of as non essential spending.... but if you don't want to give your opinion, fine... <shrugs/>
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Old 28-06-2018, 00:07   #23
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I have actually answered your question but compiling a list would take too much of my valuable time. I am amazed that you think the government spends the money they collect from you well, but I suppose ignorance is bliss.

---------- Post added at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was at 19:30 ----------

That’s easy to say. Just to remind you, the government is trying to prevent fraud at all levels.

Some on here have an aversion to talking about those without great wealth screwing the benefits system. The truth is, all fraud has to be tackled.
It MAY be trying to prevent fraud, but its not fraud if it's legal.
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Old 28-06-2018, 00:42   #24
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by Mr_love_monkey View Post
.... surely what I wanted was your opinion. If I wanted to read someone else's opinion, I'd would have (and have) googled it.
I also note that foreign aid isn't on that list.....
You seem to be looking for issues where there are none. All I wanted to know what you thought of as non essential spending.... but if you don't want to give your opinion, fine... <shrugs/>
You wanted some more examples. There are many on the list I linked to, most of which I agree with. Take your pick. Why do you want my opinion about what I think should be cut?

Make up your own mind, you don't need my permission to form an opinion on whether there are many opportunities to reduce waste. The evidence is before you. You choose what looks like unnecessary levels of expenditure. I would be interested in your view!

All I'm saying is that the knee-jerk reaction to increase taxes to fund the NHS betrays rather a lack of backbone and imagination.

---------- Post added at 23:41 ---------- Previous post was at 23:39 ----------

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Originally Posted by Rexz View Post
It MAY be trying to prevent fraud, but its not fraud if it's legal.
Agreed, and I think we all know that.

I would certainly have no objection to tax perks allowed by the government to be outlawed. I'm not defending that.

---------- Post added at 23:42 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
no, he's offering him a shovel to dig himself into a hole
No hole here, mate. Are you sure you are standing on solid ground?
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Old 28-06-2018, 01:17   #25
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
You wanted some more examples. There are many on the list I linked to, most of which I agree with. Take your pick. Why do you want my opinion about what I think should be cut?
It's called having a discussion; that's generally how these things work. We can all post links and say read that, take some of it, and that's my opinion.
I was asking what you thought, but clearly you seem to have some issue sharing it. Fine, whatever - if you don't have the ability/desire to express your opinion, up to you; but you shouldn't be surprised when people ask for it when you seem happy to comment on things.

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Make up your own mind, you don't need my permission to form an opinion on whether there are many opportunities to reduce waste.
Gee thanks. I'm glad I don't need you permission to form an opinion, I might have faced difficulties in life without your condescending advice otherwise. Guess it makes a change from the insults.
I've already made up my mind. Again, as mentioned many, many times in this thread, I was asking for your view point, something you've failed to do, again and again.

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
The evidence is before you. You choose what looks like unnecessary levels of expenditure. I would be interested in your view!
I've already given you my view. My view is my view, which has been given, and that is my view.

That also pretty much echoes your entire input to this conversation, nothing more than pointless tautologous statements, with no actual content.
Let me know when you actually have something of value to add to this conversation, if you can fit it into your busy schedule
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Old 28-06-2018, 01:41   #26
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by Mr_love_monkey View Post
It's called having a discussion; that's generally how these things work. We can all post links and say read that, take some of it, and that's my opinion.
I was asking what you thought, but clearly you seem to have some issue sharing it. Fine, whatever - if you don't have the ability/desire to express your opinion, up to you; but you shouldn't be surprised when people ask for it when you seem happy to comment on things.


Gee thanks. I'm glad I don't need you permission to form an opinion, I might have faced difficulties in life without your condescending advice otherwise. Guess it makes a change from the insults.
I've already made up my mind. Again, as mentioned many, many times in this thread, I was asking for your view point, something you've failed to do, again and again.


I've already given you my view. My view is my view, which has been given, and that is my view.

That also pretty much echoes your entire input to this conversation, nothing more than pointless tautologous statements, with no actual content.
Let me know when you actually have something of value to add to this conversation, if you can fit it into your busy schedule
I don’t know where you think you are going with this. I pretty well agree with what the Taxpayers’ Alliance is saying. That is my opinion.
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Old 28-06-2018, 03:06   #27
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

Still waiting for your examples.
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Old 28-06-2018, 06:32   #28
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Still waiting for your examples.
You won't get it as its more the straw man approach rather then the real facts approach l generally find.
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Old 28-06-2018, 07:46   #29
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I don’t know where you think you are going with this. I pretty well agree with what the Taxpayers’ Alliance is saying. That is my opinion.
I'm not going anywhere, I'm just asking for your opinion - pointing me to a website and saying I agree with most of that (and where the very first example/opinion you gave isn't on the list) isn't your opinion. I'm not entirely sure why you want to obfuscate the conversation...

Anyway, I'm done with this particular circular/pointless argument - if at any point you need any more input from me, go to this link : https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=re...less+arguments I agree with most of the things that come up
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Old 28-06-2018, 09:41   #30
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Re: The over-40s should pay a 'social care premium'

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Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
Still waiting for your examples.
My examples are those set out by the Taxpayers' Alliance, and I have long advocated sorting out the overseas development budget in addition to that. My point is that if you address all the waste that goes on in government, you would be able to find extra money for public services without needing a tax increase.

I really don't need to provide anything else to make that argument. That is my view. I am afraid all this business about giving my 'opinion' is simple mischief making and I'm done with that game.

---------- Post added at 08:40 ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_love_monkey View Post
I'm not going anywhere, I'm just asking for your opinion - pointing me to a website and saying I agree with most of that (and where the very first example/opinion you gave isn't on the list) isn't your opinion. I'm not entirely sure why you want to obfuscate the conversation...

Anyway, I'm done with this particular circular/pointless argument - if at any point you need any more input from me, go to this link : https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=re...less+arguments I agree with most of the things that come up
I made my point and gave examples. You don't need any more.

---------- Post added at 08:41 ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 ----------

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You won't get it as its more the straw man approach rather then the real facts approach l generally find.
You're a fine one to talk about straw men, Den!
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