[Updated] HS2 gets the green light

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51319261

However, it strongly advises against cancelling it, saying HS2 would benefit the UK transport system and that there were no "shovel-ready" alternative upgrades to existing railways.
The review also says calls for just one section of the railway to be built to control costs would not be value for money.
And it says scrapping the scheme would have a detrimental impact on the UK's "fragile" construction industry.

Looks like it’s going ahead, although the Beeb says el gov won’t decide until next month.

I think if they’re serious about improving northern connections they should be beginning HS3 right now.

[jonbxx]

I saw an interesting Twitter thread on the costs of HS2 this morning - https://twitter.com/RAIL/status/1222812020896141314

That is some crazy procurement process!

HS2 will run close to where I live and it's about as popular as a cup of cold sick around here

[papa smurf]

Can't see how it will improve travel to and from Cleethorpes, therefore it's not worth doing.
Once it gets to Birmingham it will be canned due to un-affordable cost ,if it was in any way designed to help the north it would start in the north.

[tweetiepooh]

What would be the point of starting in the north? You could travel from one "poor" spot to another quickly.
One of the ideas is to move people out of London and the South East. Once there is an easy, fast commute from Brum maybe some companies/departments would move there, then you expand out further.
But like lots of large infrastructure projects the UK is quite small, you can't do the thing without badly disrupting people "in the way". This can be less of an issue in larger countries where it's
1)Easier to build around people
2)Anything to improve connectivity is welcome for the large distances covered.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

What would be the point of starting in the north? You could travel from one "poor" spot to another quickly.
One of the ideas is to move people out of London and the South East. Once there is an easy, fast commute from Brum maybe some companies/departments would move there, then you expand out further.
But like lots of large infrastructure projects the UK is quite small, you can't do the thing without badly disrupting people "in the way". This can be less of an issue in larger countries where it's
1)Easier to build around people
2)Anything to improve connectivity is welcome for the large distances covered.

That's the attitude the north always gets.

Scrap it I've heard enough.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Can't see how it will improve travel to and from Cleethorpes, therefore it's not worth doing.
Once it gets to Birmingham it will be canned due to un-affordable cost ,if it was in any way designed to help the north it would start in the north.

But then what could improve travel to/from Cleethorpes?



HS2 isn't just about London to Birmingham. It's also about relieving the pressure on the other destinations on the current routes between those 2 places. All the passengers that travel between London and Birmingham would no longer affect London/Birmingham to Milton Keynes, Rugby, Coventry, etc.


It all depends on the level of demand for direct routes, London-Birmingham, Birmingham-Manchester, etc.

Good, just build it now. Idiots.

[tweetiepooh]

Well I know that there are people in and around Birmingham looking forward to seeing their property prices soar on HS2 service starting.

And those other places, true it may help them but London is the centre of the universe (according to London). It's all about helping people who work in London be able to move to somewhere else but still be close to London.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by nomadking

But then what could improve travel to/from Cleethorpes?



HS2 isn't just about London to Birmingham. It's also about relieving the pressure on the other destinations on the current routes between those 2 places. All the passengers that travel between London and Birmingham would no longer affect London/Birmingham to Milton Keynes, Rugby, Coventry, etc.


It all depends on the level of demand for direct routes, London-Birmingham, Birmingham-Manchester, etc.

investment in local services all over the UK,not a line that gets a few people to London 15 mins quicker.

[heero_yuy]

It would be cheaper to move Cleethorpes closer to London.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

It would be cheaper to move Cleethorpes closer to London.

That's a lot of sand to lug around.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

investment in local services all over the UK,not a line that gets a few people to London 15 mins quicker.

It's not about speed. Any faster journey times are merely a consequence of new tracks and their routes. Most routes would improve in speed if you could build from scratch and have a choice of path for the route.


Link

By freeing up space on existing lines, for new local train services, passengers and freight, HS2 helps ease congestion and over-crowding. Travelling by train becomes a more convenient and enjoyable option for everybody, regardless of how far they’re going.
The West Coast Main Line is Europe’s busiest mixed-use railway, accommodating fast inter-city services, stopping commuter trains and freight. By putting high speed services on a dedicated line, HS2 will allow more trains and fewer delays along this route. Freight transport will also benefit from this.

How often do local services currently have to stop and let a faster inter-city service go by?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

That's the attitude the north always gets.

Scrap it I've heard enough.

Me too. Sometimes I think the poster in question is out to deliberately provoke for some reason.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

What would be the point of starting in the north? You could travel from one "poor" spot to another quickly.
One of the ideas is to move people out of London and the South East. Once there is an easy, fast commute from Brum maybe some companies/departments would move there, then you expand out further.
.

Yes, we're all destitute up here, everyone on the breadline, queuing in food banks, dressed in rags............

While everyone South of Watford Gap all eat cake.

[nomadking]

Transportation doesn't yet(although give it time) on a quota system. You don't turn up and get sent to Cleethorpes(or wherever) because not enough people have gone there this week.


North of Watford Gap has it's own separate rail proposals, Northern Powerhouse and Midlands Engine. In that sense more northern areas are benefiting.

HS2 will directly serve: Birmingham Curzon Street, Carlisle, Chesterfield, Crewe, Darlington, Durham East Midlands Hub (Toton), Edinburgh, Glasgow, Interchange (Solihull), Lancaster, Leeds, Liverpool, Lockerbie, London Euston, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Newcastle, Old Oak Common, Oxenholme, Penrith, Preston, Runcorn, Sheffield Midland, Stafford, Warrington, Wigan and York.

London is the only listed place south of Watford Gap.