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It's just a gesture, a 'show of solidarity' . . . like the many before it that had lots of good intentions with no end product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
Exactly, how dare people show that they're against racism because their gestures or protests might not achieve anything. They should just shut up, not bother and hope that the offending behavior doesn't get any worse.
No need to get 'antsy' over a simple comment. Has racist behaviour diminished over the last 10 years or is it still as rife as ever (if not worse due to the newer platforms it can be spouted on? )
I don't believe they are - it's often the accompanying comments that lead people to regard them as racists, rather than the objection to "taking the knee",
Oh they are. You’re right in that it’s often accompanied by racist comments and abuse. But for example, I’m in favour of people being allowed to decide for themselves whether to take the knee. Freedom to choose. If someone thinks it’s an empty gesture then they should be allowed to do say so, and abstain.
I disagree that there ought to be some sort of obligation to join in.
*disclaimer - in case anyone fancies accusing me of racism, my son is mixed race, my OH is Polish and her daughter is half Polish, half Nigerian.
However, I'm unable to come up with a reason why people would, or do object to players,athletes etc. taking the knee?
I don’t have a problem with it, I just don’t agree with the gesture in a sports game because people who are fed up of politics in general, can and should enjoy politically free sports and entertainment, politics should be kept away from sports.
I already fundamentally know Racism is unacceptable in any society and I would like to think a good majority of the fans in sports do to. Look at the positive response to what fans have done to combat the vandalism on Marcus Rashfords’s Mural. He commented on Twitter last night that he was brought to tears over the messages put on that wall to cover up the foul crap graffitied on it by racists.
But Politics and sport should always be kept separate IMO.
No need to get 'antsy' over a simple comment. Has racist behaviour diminished over the last 10 years or is it still as rife as ever (if not worse due to the newer platforms it can be spouted on? )
It's not the comment, it's the attitude (not yours specifically) that because something doesn't make a difference, it shouldn't be done.
Do the people with that attitude (and I'll include you) believe that pubs and bars should stop the Ask for Angela/Ani campaigns that they run because attacks on women are still occuring?
---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
I don’t have a problem with it, I just don’t agree with the gesture in a sports game because people who are fed up of politics in general, can and should enjoy politically free sports and entertainment, politics should be kept away from sports.
I already fundamentally know Racism is unacceptable in any society and I would like to think a good majority of the fans in sports do to. Look at the positive response to what fans have done to combat the vandalism on Marcus Rashfords’s Mural. He commented on Twitter last night that he was brought to tears over the messages put on that wall to cover up the foul crap graffitied on it by racists.
But Politics and sport should always be kept separate IMO.
I understand your point, however & IMO, sport such as the Euros, World Cup & the Olympics which having the largest reach in terms of global audience I can't think of a better way to target & reinforce the message that racism is not acceptable.
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It's not the comment, it's the attitude (not yours specifically) that because something doesn't make a difference, it shouldn't be done.
Do the people with that attitude (and I'll include you) believe that pubs and bars should stop the Ask for Angela/Ani campaigns that they run because attacks on women are still occuring?
That's a very good point however I don't see any politics in helping women avoid being attacked.
It's not the comment, it's the attitude (not yours specifically) that because something doesn't make a difference, it shouldn't be done.
Do the people with that attitude (and I'll include you) believe that pubs and bars should stop the Ask for Angela/Ani campaigns that they run because attacks on women are still occuring?
I obviously agree that something should be done, about many things not just racist comments on social media, however I was simply suggesting (for want of a better word) that taking the knee is simply a gesture highlighting a problem that we've known about for years, and previous 'awareness' initiatives haven't really done anything to improve things.
Actually, in one sense, it's given people yet another thing to complain about, given that it's seen by some (as has been mentioned) that if you don't agree with it you're deemed as racist yourself
Oh they are. You’re right in that it’s often accompanied by racist comments and abuse. But for example, I’m in favour of people being allowed to decide for themselves whether to take the knee. Freedom to choose. If someone thinks it’s an empty gesture then they should be allowed to do say so, and abstain.
I disagree that there ought to be some sort of obligation to join in.
*disclaimer - in case anyone fancies accusing me of racism, my son is mixed race, my OH is Polish and her daughter is half Polish, half Nigerian.
As always CF shows itself as a microcosm of wider society Rus shouldn't need to add that disclaimer.
It seems now that regardless of political leanings that we're all like dogs with bones, refusing to let go until we get the tiniest details in the hope that we can go 'aha, i'm right, you're wrong'
---------- Post added at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth
I obviously agree that something should be done, about many things not just racist comments on social media, however I was simply suggesting (for want of a better word) that taking the knee is simply a gesture highlighting a problem that we've known about for years, and previous 'awareness' initiatives haven't really done anything to improve things.
Actually, in one sense, it's given people yet another thing to complain about, given that it's seen by some (as has been mentioned) that if you don't agree with it you're deemed as racist yourself
So, should the pubs & cubs stop the Ask Angela/Ani campaigns? Women are still being attacked, we've know about it for years....? Previous initiatives don't seem to have resolved the issue.
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There is no wrong or right regarding taking the knee, the reasons behind it have been discussed to death many times.
There are however differing opinions on whether it's working as intended, should be mandatory, or being hijacked as a political meaning.
To be honest I don't mind if players want to do it or not . . as long as they retain the choice without being scapegoated if they don't.
As for the Ask Angela/Ani stuff . . no idea . . maybe it's the drinking culture?
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What the last few days has proved is that there is still a big issue with racism in this country and sportsmen are being targeted.
If they want to take the knee up to them, none of our business. If we're that offended,leave the ground, no ones forcing anyone to watch.
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Re: Euro 2020: England Reach Final
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
That’s like saying if women didn’t wear low cut tops or short skirts they’re wouldn’t be as many women being sexually harassed, sexually assaulted (or worse)
Not related in any way, but the probability is almost certainly that there would not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
The problem is the racists NOT those who are protesting/drawing attention to it.
No, the problem is you are giving them exactly the attention they want.
Silly political jestures will not solve anything, and almost certainly makes them more determined.
The more you try and stop people doing something, the more they try and do it.
Not related in any way, but the probability is almost certainly that there would not.
That kind of is the point though. They should be able to wear what they want. It's 100% the fault of the rapist.
Likewise, people should be able to protest how they see fit against racism and if they are racially abused for doing so then 100% of the blame should be directed at the racists rather than telling those taking the knee to stop drawing attention to themselves.
We need to go after the racists, not those protesting against it.
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