The state benefits system mega-thread.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

we need to get away from all this earned nonsense.

you talk as if no young people earn their income and pay taxes.

you talk as if every single pensioner has worked for the full duration of their working age.

you talk as if what you earned is the most important thing (when it isnt).

Again your post proves you only thinking about yourself, you just said it, you have the belief because you worked hard, then that is more important than everything else.

Your post has a bearing of such great significance I think it would be rude to rebut it.

Perhaps it should be carved in stone for posterity and for the reader to draw their own conclusions.

In the meantime, shouldn't you be out robbing graves or something?

Originally Posted by Kursk

Perhaps it should be carved in stone for posterity and for the reader to draw their own conclusions.

Why not. It worked for Ed Miliband.

[Kursk]

Delaney's Donkey (amended) in memory of the late, great Val Doonican:

Now Benefits were a donkey that everyone admired
Particularly the lazy and permanently tired
A leg at every corner balancing its head
And a tail to let you know which end they wanted to be fed

[johnhook]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Delaney's Donkey (amended) in memory of the late, great Val Doonican:

Now Benefits were a donkey that everyone admired
Particularly the lazy and permanently tired
A leg at every corner balancing its head
And a tail to let you know which end they wanted to be fed

what percentage of the sick and unemployed do you think are doing it by choice?

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by johnhook

what percentage of the sick and unemployed do you think are doing it by choice?

No leading questions please

[johnhook]

Originally Posted by Kursk

No leading questions please

I apologise the question was poor

It should have been how many people on ESA and JSA do you think are work shy and not actually ill or disabled and how many on JSA can not find a job or do you think maybe most of those on ESA are sick and disabled and a good portion on JSA either can not get a job or perhaps a large number actually get a job and some are newly unemployed?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Why not. It worked for Ed Miliband.

No it didn't...

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by johnhook

bet you they will all take it though

I will and with a smile on my face and a tip of my cap.

[johnhook]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I will and with a smile on my face and a tip of my cap.

so what really is the issue with the welfare state?

a small portion of those claiming benefits are swinging the lead.They are in the wrong but in all reality they are not that much of a burden on the tax payer. Most people are legit so most of you would say those truly in need should get support this is happening.

Is it jealousy? because the workshy are not going out doing an 8 hour shift often in jobs they hate?

It has to be something unless of course you believe most the people claiming are swinging especially as some here have mentioned that they will happily become members of a group who are a greater burden on the tax payer than the unemployed and sick combined

( not aimed at you Sirius aimed generally)

---------- Post added at 06:51 ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 ----------

The sad fact as I see it is the government have spent 5 years focusing on those claiming leading to the tax payer believing the shirker is taking large sums of money out of their pockets. It is clear to anyone who looks at the figures and reads the reports on estimated fraud figures that this simply is not happening

JSA now is so hard to claim long term unemployed have to show they do 35 hours jobsearch courses and basically jumping through hoops to get their money constantly at risk of sanctions
ESA all the work assessments have become so much stricter leading to so many people being taken off fit for work when they are not
PIP as above
Tax Credits well even workers get these due to the ridicules system we have where people can not earn a living wage

I do really want to know exactly how much they think they are losing to the work shy and why do they harbour such resentment

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by johnhook

so what really is the issue with the welfare state?

a small portion of those claiming benefits are swinging the lead.They are in the wrong but in all reality they are not that much of a burden on the tax payer. Most people are legit so most of you would say those truly in need should get support this is happening.

Is it jealousy? because the workshy are not going out doing an 8 hour shift often in jobs they hate?

It has to be something unless of course you believe most the people claiming are swinging especially as some here have mentioned that they will happily become members of a group who are a greater burden on the tax payer than the unemployed and sick combined

( not aimed at you Sirius aimed generally)

---------- Post added at 06:51 ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 ----------

The sad fact as I see it is the government have spent 5 years focusing on those claiming leading to the tax payer believing the shirker is taking large sums of money out of their pockets. It is clear to anyone who looks at the figures and reads the reports on estimated fraud figures that this simply is not happening

JSA now is so hard to claim long term unemployed have to show they do 35 hours jobsearch courses and basically jumping through hoops to get their money constantly at risk of sanctions
ESA all the work assessments have become so much stricter leading to so many people being taken off fit for work when they are not
PIP as above
Tax Credits well even workers get these due to the ridicules system we have where people can not earn a living wage

I do really want to know exactly how much they think they are losing to the work shy and why do they harbour such resentment

I certainly do not tar everyone with the same brush, there are those in genuine need whilst looking for work and there are those who have never worked and have no intension of working.

I have been very lucky in my life as I have only ever been out of work for a total of about six months. I am looking forward to my retirement and the pensions that will allow me to live a decent life. I do know how hard it can be to find a decent job and the hoops that those who wish to claim are being put through as my eldest lad is out of work at the moment.

I don’t know where we go with the welfare bill but I do know that come retirement I will need to make use of the pensions I have paid into all my life.

[johnhook]

ultimately all I want is for everyone to realise that out of the tax they pay only a tiny fraction of it goes into the pockets of the shirker but people seem just blinkered to the reality

[Osem]

Originally Posted by johnhook

ultimately all I want is for everyone to realise that out of the tax they pay only a tiny fraction of it goes into the pockets of the shirker but people seem just blinkered to the reality

Some people are but surely a statement like that is as much a generalisation as that which you're complaining about.

[johnhook]

Originally Posted by Osem

Some people are but surely a statement like that is as much a generalisation as that which you're complaining about.

or you could just see it as its directed and that is to the people it concerns

oh and incidentally the lack of the word Some alters my point and the facts nill. What is your view on my point Osem please rather than your opinion of how I wrote it

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by johnhook

ultimately all I want is for everyone to realise that out of the tax they pay only a tiny fraction of it goes into the pockets of the shirker but people seem just blinkered to the reality

Some figures to back up that assertion would be good.

[Osem]

Yes but it works both ways doesn't it. I've lost count how many times around here I've had to make the point that it's only a proportion of those on benefits who abuse the system when I've never claimed anything different. Far too often people complain loudly about negative stereotyping of claimants then do the very same thing when anyone raises a concern or with comments like -

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Someone who is 64 and unemployed would be labeled as a undeserving scrounger by tory ministers

As for the rest of your post, I agree with some of what you say but have made my views known a number of times in this thread already and don't feel the need to do so further.