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Coronavirus
View Poll Results: When you become eligible for the Covid Vaccine, would you take it?
Yes 76 84.44%
No 8 8.89%
Unsure 6 6.67%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-02-2021, 12:57   #3496
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post
There is a degree of vaccine nationalism, especially from my German colleagues who were definitely bigging up the BioNTech vaccine!
I guess it depends what criteria you used to big up a vaccine on. For ease of storage and cost, the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine wins. But for tackling the new variants, the BioNTech-Pfizer vaccine currently wins.
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Old 07-02-2021, 13:04   #3497
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
This was on the news this morning, saying the jab might not prevent you from getting a mild infection. So what?

You’re already 99.2% unlikely to die from the virus without any vaccine, if the vaccine means you stay out of hospital but get the sniffles and a cough then it’s good enough.
The thing is there's no guarantee it will keep anyone out of hospital, or prevent death, as the sample size was 2000 healthy adults. The data doesn't exist to say either way.

Anything that indicates a belief that it'll perform better in people with worse immune systems - the elderly, those with pre-existing conditions who weren't included in the study - is entirely hypothetical.

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I guess it depends what criteria you used to big up a vaccine on. For ease of storage and cost, the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine wins. But for tackling the new variants, the BioNTech-Pfizer vaccine currently wins.
An ineffective vaccine ultimately won't resolve the issue of lockdowns, social distancing and greater social and economic restrictions on their societies. An ineffective or partly effective vaccine against a virus running wild in the community is only likely to generate escape mutants in the long run that are resistant to the vaccine. It's debatable whether we'd be better off just running with herd immunity at the start compared to a half-baked attempt.

Last edited by jfman; 07-02-2021 at 13:12.
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Old 07-02-2021, 13:22   #3498
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I guess it depends what criteria you used to big up a vaccine on. For ease of storage and cost, the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine wins. But for tackling the new variants, the BioNTech-Pfizer vaccine currently wins.
Germans love stuff made (or in this case invented and made) in Germany. They see it as a hallmark of quality. To be fair, in many cases, they have a point. Wrong a German consumer and you will know about it
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Old 07-02-2021, 14:21   #3499
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Re: Coronavirus

For those who are mildly curious, I have a number of friends either elderly enough or vulnerable enough to have been vaccinated in the last few days. All of them, whether in north west England or central Scotland, were given the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine.
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Old 07-02-2021, 14:55   #3500
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
This was on the news this morning, saying the jab might not prevent you from getting a mild infection. So what?

You’re already 99.2% unlikely to die from the virus without any vaccine, if the vaccine means you stay out of hospital but get the sniffles and a cough then it’s good enough.
Because we don’t know the impact of Long COVID yet - it seems to affect those who haven’t been ill enough to be hospitalised as well.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n132
Quote:
Many of the risk factors for severity of acute covid-19, such as age, male sex, obesity, and ethnicity do not appear explicitly to enhance the chance of long covid. Also, there seems no clear correlation between severity of the acute disease and long term sequelae. Indeed, many patients come from that large, hidden group who self-isolated when they were unwell at home, did not access a polymerase chain reaction test, and so have no formal health record of covid-19. These points highlight an uncharted pathophysiology, and demand a better answer than “post-viral syndrome” or the notion that people are bound to “feel a bit rough” coming out of hospital
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3026

Quote:
What are the symptoms?

Post-acute covid-19 symptoms vary widely. Even so-called mild covid-19 may be associated with long term symptoms, most commonly cough, low grade fever, and fatigue, all of which may relapse and remit.47 Other reported symptoms include shortness of breath, chest pain, headaches, neurocognitive difficulties, muscle pains and weakness, gastrointestinal upset, rashes, metabolic disruption (such as poor control of diabetes), thromboembolic conditions, and depression and other mental health conditions.424 Skin rashes can take many forms including vesicular, maculopapular, urticarial, or chilblain-like lesions on the extremities (so called covid toe)
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Old 07-02-2021, 16:05   #3501
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Re: Coronavirus

Just booked my jab online having received my letter.

I had the choice of any day any time locally.

Tuesday lunchtime for me.
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Old 07-02-2021, 23:33   #3502
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
South Africa halts AstraZeneca vaccine rollout

Move comes after preliminary data find no effect on mild or moderate disease caused by prevalent variant

South Africa has moved to halt its rollout of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine after preliminary and limited evidence showed it failed to protect against mild and moderate forms of disease caused by a coronavirus variant first detected in the country.

Distribution of the AstraZeneca jab, scheduled to begin in the country this month, would be put on hold to study its effects including on severe cases in more detail “until the scientists give us clear indications as to what we need to do”, Zweli Mkhize, South Africa’s health minister, said on Sunday.
https://www.ft.com/content/82534b15-...7-de674b11079c
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-55975052
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...ction-12211970

Last edited by 1andrew1; 07-02-2021 at 23:45.
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Old 07-02-2021, 23:37   #3503
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
All eyes on the UK to find out what the vaccine actually does then. The biggest clinical trial in the world.
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Old 08-02-2021, 01:12   #3504
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Re: Coronavirus

The evidence available in the UK seems to more-or-less concur with that coming out of South Africa. It lessens severity of disease among those infected with the SA variant but doesn’t necessarily prevent it. There’s no doubt a targeted update of the vaccine is now highly desirable, however in the meantime there is still an overriding public health goal, which is to control disease so people aren’t dying of it and they aren’t filling our hospitals so that people end up dying of other things going untreated. The programme must continue at speed, with what we have available.

It looks to me as if the national vaccination programme, once complete, is likely to start again from step 1 just as soon as the modified vaccine is ready. The important thing is we know the Oxford ‘recipe’ works; it’s now just a matter of substituting the updated genetics.
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Old 08-02-2021, 01:26   #3505
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Re: Coronavirus

I’ve not seen anything scientific to suggest it might prevent severe outcomes - the sample in South Africa was on healthy individuals with no comorbidities. As Pierre frequently points out the odds of severe outcomes in these groups are extremely low.

There’s understandably a lot of PR floating around on what people would expect or hope to see, but I’ve not seen any evidence for it.

Back to square one in Autumn isn’t the outcome I’m sure most would have hoped for, especially if we are unable to meaningfully ease restrictions over the summer due to the risk of further mutations that evade vaccine response.

I do wonder, as the Government will have had prior sight to this information as it evolves, and you’ve said before these “aren’t developed in a vacuum”, whether it’s possible Government knew vaccine efficacy was irrelevant anyway when they started pushing it out as quickly as possible. A Great British success story, and we could have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for those pesky mutations!
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Old 08-02-2021, 01:34   #3506
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Re: Coronavirus

I think “vaccine efficacy was irrelevant anyway” is a bit of a leap. If you’re not careful you’re going to start sounding like you almost need it all to go wrong, you know, as if a national disaster is an essential component of your self-validation, or something ...
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Old 08-02-2021, 01:46   #3507
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I think “vaccine efficacy was irrelevant anyway” is a bit of a leap. If you’re not careful you’re going to start sounding like you almost need it all to go wrong, you know, as if a national disaster is an essential component of your self-validation, or something ...
I try to avoid the British press if I can as slightly more objectivity can be found.

There’s certainly been question marks before now around what real world performance will be. I’m sure you’d I agree I certainly can’t be accused of being Captain Hindsight as I’ve voiced these before.

I’d be very pleased to be proven wrong as real world data emerges but I remain sceptical to say the least. Lockdown should now aim to eliminate the SA/UK2 variants.

Last edited by jfman; 08-02-2021 at 01:50.
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Old 08-02-2021, 11:30   #3508
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Re: Coronavirus

Last thing the vaccination campaign needs is a minister feeling the need to declare a vote of confidence in the jabs....
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Old 08-02-2021, 11:56   #3509
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Re: Coronavirus

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Last thing the vaccination campaign needs is a minister feeling the need to declare a vote of confidence in the jabs....
Absolutely right. Their word is least trusted.
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Old 08-02-2021, 12:13   #3510
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Re: Coronavirus

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Last thing the vaccination campaign needs is a minister feeling the need to declare a vote of confidence in the jabs....
It can sometimes come across like a football club owner declaring confidence in a failing manager whilst he's scrambling to find his successor.

On the other hand, what should a minister do if asked the question?
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