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UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
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Old 09-07-2019, 20:37   #1
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UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables

Jeremy Hunt is really having a go at Trump re: AmbassadorGate:

https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/stat...26614479130625

Quote:
1/2 @realDonaldTrump friends speak frankly so I will: these comments are disrespectful and wrong to our Prime Minister and my country. Your diplomats give their private opinions to @SecPompeo and so do ours! You said the UK/US alliance was the greatest in history and I agree...

2/2...but allies need to treat each other with respect as @theresa_may has always done with you. Ambassadors are appointed by the UK government and if I become PM our Ambassador stays.
Good on him ..
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Old 09-07-2019, 22:29   #2
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

The ambassador thing is difficult. You can't really have someone whose now publicly known to have said bad things about Trump be the ambassador to the United States but at the same time you don't want to cause ambassadors not to be frank with the foreign office about the country they're in because they're worried about it leaking and getting fired.

It puts the Government in an impossible position. Fire him for doing his job letting the leaker win and causing concern amongst other diplomats. Keep him and damage relations with the President of the United States.

What is easy is that you cannot have diplomatic cables being leaked for political gain. I think there needs to be an investigation from the police into who did it.
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Old 09-07-2019, 23:03   #3
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

The thing is, he sent the emails, but he wouldnít have written them - they would have been researched, compiled, reviewed, summarised, and written by aides, junior diplomats, and researchers.

The emails would have been the consensus, as seen and agreed, by the staff "on the ground", and presented to, and agreed by, the Ambassador and his senior staff - their job is to present what they see and their interpretation of it.

If diplomatic staff only write reports that wonít upset the countries they are in, they arenít doing their jobs properly.

Itís the timing of the leak to Isabel Oakeshott, the journalist who acts as the de-facto communications office of Aaron Banks, thatís "interesting".

The leak happens, then Nigel Farage demands Darroch be sacked, and then Leave.EU launches its campaign to make sure Farage replaced him.

Incredible timing.
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Old 09-07-2019, 23:51   #4
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Suspicious timing.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:06   #5
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
The thing is, he sent the emails, but he wouldnít have written them - they would have been researched, compiled, reviewed, summarised, and written by aides, junior diplomats, and researchers.

The emails would have been the consensus, as seen and agreed, by the staff "on the ground", and presented to, and agreed by, the Ambassador and his senior staff - their job is to present what they see and their interpretation of it.

If diplomatic staff only write reports that wonít upset the countries they are in, they arenít doing their jobs properly.

Itís the timing of the leak to Isabel Oakeshott, the journalist who acts as the de-facto communications office of Aaron Banks, thatís "interesting".

The leak happens, then Nigel Farage demands Darroch be sacked, and then Leave.EU launches its campaign to make sure Farage replaced him.

Incredible timing.
I see that a foreign state is not being ruled out as the source of the emails, which is a little bit worrying.
Latest escalation is that trade talks with the US are suspended.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:34   #6
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
The thing is, he sent the emails, but he wouldnít have written them - they would have been researched, compiled, reviewed, summarised, and written by aides, junior diplomats, and researchers.

The emails would have been the consensus, as seen and agreed, by the staff "on the ground", and presented to, and agreed by, the Ambassador and his senior staff - their job is to present what they see and their interpretation of it.

If diplomatic staff only write reports that wonít upset the countries they are in, they arenít doing their jobs properly.

Itís the timing of the leak to Isabel Oakeshott, the journalist who acts as the de-facto communications office of Aaron Banks, thatís "interesting".

The leak happens, then Nigel Farage demands Darroch be sacked, and then Leave.EU launches its campaign to make sure Farage replaced him.

Incredible timing.
Isabel Oakeshott does not act like the de-facto communications office for Arron Banks, at all, that is rubbish.

One small issue with your theory - Farage is a leader another political party, who cannot do both jobs, even if he really wanted to.
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Old 10-07-2019, 13:56   #7
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
The thing is, he sent the emails, but he wouldnít have written them - they would have been researched, compiled, reviewed, summarised, and written by aides, junior diplomats, and researchers.

The emails would have been the consensus, as seen and agreed, by the staff "on the ground", and presented to, and agreed by, the Ambassador and his senior staff - their job is to present what they see and their interpretation of it.

If diplomatic staff only write reports that wonít upset the countries they are in, they arenít doing their jobs properly.

Itís the timing of the leak to Isabel Oakeshott, the journalist who acts as the de-facto communications office of Aaron Banks, thatís "interesting".

The leak happens, then Nigel Farage demands Darroch be sacked, and then Leave.EU launches its campaign to make sure Farage replaced him.

Incredible timing.
Let's see if there is a paper trail to follow back to the leaker?

Here's a good reference to how these unsavory character are linked:



---------- Post added at 12:56 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

More popcorn needed! Latest blue-on-blue fallout:

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1148922180610252803

Quote:
Foreign office minister @AlanDuncanMP says @BorisJohnson has "thrown" Sir Kim Darroch "under the bus" by not supporting him. He says he's "absolutely livid" by the UK ambassador to the US' resignation.
Trump memos row: UK ambassador to US quits 'after Boris Johnson refuses to back him
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Old 10-07-2019, 14:31   #8
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Not a surprise. It did make it impossible for him to do his job and the main purpose of keeping him on would be to send a message to other countries that they don't have a veto on our ambassadors and not to reward the leaker with exactly what they wanted.

In reality, though the leak did do its job and whilst countries can't dictate who we send we're obviously not looking to antagonise them. Also although Boris Johnson was unwilling to back the ambassador I don't see how this set of circumstances helps him. Darroch may have even intentionally decided to go in a way that maximises the damage to him rather than let himself be quietly sidelined. It will sour the Foreign Office and our ambassadors against him and maybe even impact the advice he gets.

We've sent a message that if ambassadors do their job and give their honest impression of the leaders and countries they're sent to liaise with we will not have their back should those impressions be leaked.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

As for Oakeshott, she did her job. Someone leaked a newsworthy story to her. They may have had ulterior motives and she may have a bias and angle to pursue but it isn't her job to protect the internal communications of the civil service.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

And the police are now involved: https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/...32074683940864
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Old 10-07-2019, 14:33   #9
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Not a surprise. It did make it impossible for him to do his job and the main purpose of keeping him on would be to send a message to other countries that they don't have a veto on our ambassadors and not to reward the leaker with exactly what they wanted.

In reality, though the leak did do its job and whilst countries can't dictate who we send we're obviously not looking to antagonise them. Also although Boris Johnson was unwilling to back the ambassador I don't see how this set of circumstances helps him. Darroch may have even intentionally decided to go in a way that maximises the damage to him rather than let himself be quietly sidelined. It will sour the Foreign Office and our ambassadors against him and maybe even impact the advice he gets.

We've sent a message that if ambassadors do their job and give their honest impression of the leaders and countries they're sent to liaise with we will not have their back should those impressions be leaked.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

As for Oakeshott, she did her job. Someone leaked a newsworthy story to her. They may have had ulterior motives and she may have a bias and angle to pursue but it isn't her job to protect the internal communications of the civil service.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

And the police are now involved: https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/...32074683940864
Whoever is running the foreign office these days has to shoulder the blame for leaked emails etc it all happened on their watch.
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Old 10-07-2019, 14:36   #10
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
Whoever is running the foreign office these days has to shoulder the blame for leaked emails etc it all happened on their watch.
The security will be looked into I guess but the leaker themselves might be held criminally responsible.
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Old 10-07-2019, 14:43   #11
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
The security will be looked into I guess but the leaker themselves might be held criminally responsible.
Breach of the official secrets act was been talked about on the TV.

Had no idea someones oppinion of Trump was an official secret.
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Old 10-07-2019, 15:30   #12
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Not a surprise. It did make it impossible for him to do his job and the main purpose of keeping him on would be to send a message to other countries that they don't have a veto on our ambassadors and not to reward the leaker with exactly what they wanted.

In reality, though the leak did do its job and whilst countries can't dictate who we send we're obviously not looking to antagonise them. Also although Boris Johnson was unwilling to back the ambassador I don't see how this set of circumstances helps him. Darroch may have even intentionally decided to go in a way that maximises the damage to him rather than let himself be quietly sidelined. It will sour the Foreign Office and our ambassadors against him and maybe even impact the advice he gets.

We've sent a message that if ambassadors do their job and give their honest impression of the leaders and countries they're sent to liaise with we will not have their back should those impressions be leaked.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

As for Oakeshott, she did her job. Someone leaked a newsworthy story to her. They may have had ulterior motives and she may have a bias and angle to pursue but it isn't her job to protect the internal communications of the civil service.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

And the police are now involved: https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/...32074683940864
I'd have liked to have seen the ambassador made a lord, perfect excuse for him to have to come home and it would've sent a message out to boot.

As for Oakeshott, she's got a habit of this, wasn't it her that leaned on Chris Humes ex wife and got them both jailed,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
The security will be looked into I guess but the leaker themselves might be held criminally responsible.
Lets hope so

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
Breach of the official secrets act was been talked about on the TV.

Had no idea someones oppinion of Trump was an official secret.
It's not a secret bozo let the cat out of the bag when he said

Quote:
clearly out of his mind", "stupefyingly ignorant", "unfit to be President" and "playing the game of terrorists".
And

Quote:
I would invite him to come and see the while of London and take him round the city.

"Except I wouldn't want to expose Londoners to any unnecessary risk of meeting Donald Trump."
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Old 10-07-2019, 18:23   #13
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
Breach of the official secrets act was been talked about on the TV.

Had no idea someones oppinion of Trump was an official secret.
The emails which were leaked were classified - if a civil servant leaked them, both the leaker and the recipient are in breach of Section 5* of the Official Secrets Act (in view of Section 3**)...

---------- Post added at 17:23 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
Whoever is running the foreign office these days has to shoulder the blame for leaked emails etc it all happened on their watch.
Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary when the emails were sent - I wouldn't be surprised if they had been stored away since then for an "opportune moment"...

**Section 3 - International relations
Section 3(1)(a) creates an offence of disclosing information, documents or other articles relating to international relations. This includes confidential information, documents or other article from a State other than the United Kingdom or an international organisation. This section applies only to crown servants and government contractors.

*Section 5 - Information resulting from unauthorised disclosures or entrusted in confidence
This section relates to further disclosure of information, documents or other articles protected from disclosure by the preceding sections of the Act. It allows, for example, the prosecution of newspapers or journalists who publish secret information leaked to them by a crown servant in contravention of section 3. This section applies to everyone.
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Old 10-07-2019, 21:48   #14
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
The emails which were leaked were classified - if a civil servant leaked them, both the leaker and the recipient are in breach of Section 5* of the Official Secrets Act (in view of Section 3**)...

---------- Post added at 17:23 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------



Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary when the emails were sent - I wouldn't be surprised if they had been stored away since then for an "opportune moment"...

**Section 3 - International relations
Section 3(1)(a) creates an offence of disclosing information, documents or other articles relating to international relations. This includes confidential information, documents or other article from a State other than the United Kingdom or an international organisation. This section applies only to crown servants and government contractors.

*Section 5 - Information resulting from unauthorised disclosures or entrusted in confidence
This section relates to further disclosure of information, documents or other articles protected from disclosure by the preceding sections of the Act. It allows, for example, the prosecution of newspapers or journalists who publish secret information leaked to them by a crown servant in contravention of section 3. This section applies to everyone.
Is there going to be a juicy, exquisite twist to this?
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Old 10-07-2019, 22:27   #15
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Re: Leadership who is the next PM?

Boris Johnson isn't going to leak diplomatic cables. It won't be him, anyone doing it at his request or him engineering it somehow.

It's likely to be some idiot who didn't quite understand the seriousness of what they were doing.
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