Brexit - Page 80

**Damien** · 04-04-2019, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

Yes, but the point being that before the referendum “no deal” was not an issue as it shouldn’t happen.

The deal should have been conducted between the Government and the EU, but Gina Miller stopped that. So here we’re are.

I would argue Gina Miller gave Parliament a chance to sort this mess out but they deferred it until now. Parliament could have insisted May bring out the starting position and the desired outcome before issuing Article 50. The process would have been a lot easier had she the support of Parliament before hand. Instead they only insisted on this Meaningful Vote. Obviously the political reality at the time was not good for that but in hindsight, would have been good.

Pierre · 04-04-2019, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

I would argue Gina Miller gave Parliament a chance to sort this mess out

Ha! No no no and more than thrice no. Millers intervention took the power away from the government to negotiate a deal and implement it. Any deal had to be voted on, so we got this bullshillls. So now we’re here.

Before the miller ruling, it was only the Tory knobheads we head to beat, afterwards it was the whole Parliament cocknockers.....that’s when Brexit ended

TheDaddy · 05-04-2019, 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Jeez - just seen this reply of yours - You are taking the piss again aren't you?

Nothing at all noble about those pathetic MPs - they have stood on election manifestos to honour the result and then decide to go against them, once elected because they are pathetic and won't accept the democratic result. So no, absolute rubbish that they are noble or brave.

I am sick of you telling everyone, in this thread, they didn't know what they were voting for - they did - they voted to leave and yes that was what the country voted for, the ones that bothered to vote, that is.

You do know what leave means ?

It's not rocket science - leave means to "exit something", "get out of" - leaving the EU means exactly that. FFS, I am sick of seeing the same shit being said in this thread, that Brexiteers didn't know what version of Brexit they wanted - Clue: We DID!!!

I sure as hell know what I voted for and I am damn well sure 17.4 Million others did as well.

---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------

Um - they won their SEAT, that got them in Parliament.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Their contradiction is not my contradiction, you need to ask them, not me!

There is no different forms of leaving. When you leave your house - you don't take off your arms and leave them behind, same when you leave a room, leave the country, you don't leave bits of you there, there is no differential differences with the definition of leaving, as I explained above leave means exactly that.

Let me get this straight, you believed Dave Cameron and his leave everything scare scenario but you didn't believe mogg, Johnson, Davis, Gove, Farage who all campaigned on staying in some sort of single market or customs union and you didn't believe a lot of the newspapers that ran stories and opinion pieces everyday espousing the same, they all said we'd get a better deal and the reason we can't ask them and have to make do with you is because their all indulging in a bit of revisionism where they now claim it was obvious all along that the only option would be to leave without a deal. After all that I can't see how it's credible to claim you're sure all 17.4 million voters were sure what they were voting for and weren't duped or unduly influenced in anyway.

Carth · 05-04-2019, 02:56

We weren't duped or unduly influenced in any way by the EU, that's a fact

Angua · 05-04-2019, 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth

We weren't duped or unduly influenced in any way by the EU, that's a fact

They did keep well out of the referendum.

**Mick** · 05-04-2019, 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua

They did keep well out of the referendum.

Laughable. They got their cohorts to do their dirty work for them. George Soros, Tony Blair, President Obama, et all.

---------- Post added at 08:27 ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Let me get this straight, you believed Dave Cameron and his leave everything scare scenario but you didn't believe mogg, Johnson, Davis, Gove, Farage who all campaigned on staying in some sort of single market or customs union and you didn't believe a lot of the newspapers that ran stories and opinion pieces everyday espousing the same, they all said we'd get a better deal and the reason we can't ask them and have to make do with you is because their all indulging in a bit of revisionism where they now claim it was obvious all along that the only option would be to leave without a deal. After all that I can't see how it's credible to claim you're sure all 17.4 million voters were sure what they were voting for and weren't duped or unduly influenced in anyway.

We’ve had this one sided and boring discussion before. You tell me how many Remainers/people were duped by the threat of Barack Obama’s back of queue bullshit.

Some of you Remainers go on about the leave side duping others during the campaigns but act as if the Remain side acted totally squeaky clean, clue: they did not, they told absolute porkies, in all my discussions since Referendum result, I have never denied my side pulled some stunts, but again it’s all one sided rubbish with some of you Remainers.

jfman · 05-04-2019, 08:44

I’m not actually saying anyone was duped. Only that it was a broad, inconsistent, church as demonstrated by the words of leading Brexiteers.

I’ve actually said in the thread before I’d be happy to leave if there was an actual plan, over maybe five years, to prepare for it.

OLD BOY · 05-04-2019, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

At the same time it was also said we would get a deal, easily, and the Northern Irish border wouldn't be a problem. Neither of these things came true and I don't recall that Leaving with No Deal was on the table either.

May's deal came closest to this with a transitional period whilst we arrange a trade agreement and a backstop to the Irish border. The latter was going to on the island of Ireland only until we requested it be UK wide to appease the DUP. The DUP voted against it anyway and so did the ERG.

Except that Theresa May has got a deal.

It's Parliament that won't accept it, not the EU!

**Damien** · 05-04-2019, 09:13

May has written asking for an extension until 30th June with us leaving when a deal is agreed. We will start the work to hold European Elections just in case. Speculation is the EU might offer until March 2020 but again with us leaving when a deal is agreed.

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

My mistake, seems like the EU is offering until March 2020. To avoid these constant cliff edges.

**Mick** · 05-04-2019, 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

May has written asking for an extension until 30th June with us leaving when a deal is agreed. We will start the work to hold European Elections just in case. Speculation is the EU might offer until March 2020 but again with us leaving when a deal is agreed.

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

My mistake, seems like the EU is offering until March 2020. To avoid these constant cliff edges.

The EU is not offering that at all, Tusk is recommending the 27 Member States allow for this extra year, they could still veto it - but May is asking for 30th June. We’ll be partaking in European Elections. Bring on the Eurosceptic MEP’s just what the EU doesn’t need.

jfman · 05-04-2019, 09:39

Excellent news. Gives us more time to facilitate the inevitable second referendum.

jonbxx · 05-04-2019, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m not actually saying anyone was duped. Only that it was a broad, inconsistent, church as demonstrated by the words of leading Brexiteers.

Here's a nice summary and many, many clips of Leave campaigners and others prior to the referendum in reply to Piers Morgan who takes the position that no deal is the only way to leave the EU - https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/sta...47733300842497

denphone · 05-04-2019, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Excellent news. Gives us more time to facilitate the inevitable second referendum.

What second referendum? as there won't be one...

jfman · 05-04-2019, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone

What second referendum? as there won't be one...

It’s inevitable now. If no deal was viable we’d be out. If there was support for a plan we’d have had it. We’ve been to the cliff edge and walked back.

denphone · 05-04-2019, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s inevitable now. If no deal was viable we’d be out. If there was support for a plan we’d have had it. We’ve been to the cliff edge and walked back.

A second referendum will solve nothing...