Brexit

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

One of the few in Parliament with his head screwed on.

Maybe so. But if my head was screwed into my penis, I would be pretty embarrassed.

Sorry, but someone had to say it.

---------- Post added at 01:30 ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Voters have just told the two main Brexit-supporting parties where to sling their hooks! Instead, they wisely gave a solidly pro-EU party a staggering extra 700 seats!
Poll after poll shows public support increasing to remain in the world's largest and most successful trading bloc. Fortunately, we're still in it.

Andrew. Have you lost the plot?

---------- Post added at 01:31 ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Would you care to rephrase that?!

No.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Damien

It's one of the safest Tory seats in the country and his constituents narrowly only voted Leave. He is probably fine.

Difficult to judge how his area voted in the referendum, as the constituency is not the same as the referendum area. Nor is it one of the councils up for election recently.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Dominic Grieve is not being de-selected.

A letter to him from his Constituency Chairman.

Looks like his final written warning letter.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

You obviously didn’t watch the video Chris posted earlier of Prof Curtice. Voters have done no such thing. And the polls show no such thing. Stop lying.

Thanks for sharing the video, interesting and it's heart-warming to see your renewed faith in both polls and experts.
The polls currently say that 48% believe we were wrong to leave the EU and 40% we were right to. You can see the trend here. I wish for your sake I was making it up, but I'm not.
Check out the Bregret tracker here:https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...e-stand-brexit

---------- Post added at 10:04 ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

It’s a tad more complicated than that because the negotiators work hard for consensus before it gets to a vote. We may lose at the vote only a few times but on plenty of other occasions we will have given ground earlier in the process. British fishermen have long complained that the CFP and its quota system hits them disproportionately hard, suggesting that we may have given away too much in negotiations and/or lost crucial votes.

I think all fishermen have said it hits them disproportionately hard, not just British fishermen.

[Sephiroth]

When it all settles down and realistic negotiations start, a solution might be for there to be no customs union, but we pay the relevant VAT % into the EU so that there is no loss of customs integrity.

I say this because nobody's gonna erect a border between the Irelands. That perfidious Varadkar is just hiding in the other 26 coat-tails but actually he's quite naked as the wrong sort of Brexit will hit Eire far harder than it would hit us.

If we don't remain in the EU, it should be No Deal and a fresh negotiation start with the right people doing it.

May's deal stinks and, if you read it carefully, especially the Political Protocol, it seeks to prevent us from ever being a competitive force against the EU. That deal must not get through.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...a31b195d67146c

Theresa May will take a final desperate gamble to deliver Brexit this week by offering Jeremy Corbyn three major concessions in a bid to force MPs to back a new deal.

The prime minister will show her hand on Tuesday, making a “big, bold” offer to the Labour leader which could split the Conservative Party down the middle.

The Sunday Times has learnt she will outline plans for a comprehensive but temporary customs arrangement with the EU lasting until the next general election, which Corbyn will be able to depict as a Tory cave-in to his demands.

May and her negotiating team will agree that Britain will also align with a wider range of EU single market regulations on goods. Finally, they will enshrine in law that the UK will mirror all EU legislation on workers’ rights.

“There are three main areas: customs, goods alignment and workers’ rights,” said one source involved in the talks. “The Conservative Party will have to suck up concessions on each of those.”

Aides say Tuesday’s meeting between the two sides will be the “moment of truth” when Downing Street decides whether a deal with Labour is possible or whether May must instead offer MPs a series of votes, in which a full-blown customs union is likely to triumph.

I don't think that's awful for Tory Leavers is it? After all once out of the EU all that can be changed easily.

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

When it all settles down and realistic negotiations start, a solution might be for there to be no customs union, but we pay the relevant VAT % into the EU so that there is no loss of customs integrity.

But you would still need to do checks to ensure regulatory compliance and to work out the tariffs.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think that's awful for Tory Leavers is it? After all once out of the EU all that can be changed easily.

Agreed - as Pip said from day one, this is the withdrawal agreement they're talking about, not the trade deal.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think that's awful for Tory Leavers is it? After all once out of the EU all that can be changed easily.

I think we can agree on that. I have no problem with this as a transitional arrangement.

Provided we are free to negotiate a trade deal with the EU and other countries from the date we leave, we have made progress.

The ERG will be unhappy of course, because they don't want a transitional arrangement.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think that's awful for Tory Leavers is it? After all once out of the EU all that can be changed easily.

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 ----------



But you would still need to do checks to ensure regulatory compliance and to work out the tariffs.

would you need to work out the tariffs if it’s VAT? And how does it work with Switzerland which is not in the CU but has open border with France?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And if the lies are repeated often enough (which they were, in the Express and Mail), people accept them as truth.

Sort of like "E.U. Corruption"...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...endum-36276175

Good to see the EU corruption myth being called out for what it is. Some will find this uncomfortable no doubt.

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

would you need to work out the tariffs if it’s VAT? And how does it work with Switzerland which is not in the CU but has open border with France?

It doesn't have an open border with France!

This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border with sometimes significant delays. The French worry that someone might, for example, buy a frighteningly expensive Swiss watch, receive a Swiss tax refund since the watch is for export, and then not declare it for French VAT. The Swiss rigorously check that people have not spent more than €300 each on goods from France, depriving its exchequer of sales taxes. For trading companies, each load requires a customs declaration, multiple forms and stamps by the tax authorities to ensure that the formalities are closed on each side before goods cross the tax border. Within the Union none of this applies because complete regulatory alignment is married to an EU VAT regime, all within the customs union. This VAT system has its problems, but ensures that goods can flow across borders with no formalities. The Swiss-French border is efficient. There are no applicable tariffs. Regulations for goods are fully aligned. There is a common travel area between the two countries without the need for passport checks. But the border requires hard infrastructure because Switzerland is not in the EU VAT regime nor its customs union. Border frictions have separated markets either side of the border to the detriment of consumers. Regulatory alignment would remove only some of Brexit’s border barriers in Ireland.

https://www.ft.com/content/2d30482c-...9-c64b1c09b482

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

would you need to work out the tariffs if it’s VAT? And how does it work with Switzerland which is not in the CU but has open border with France?

Custom tariffs aren’t the same as the VAT.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Good to see the EU corruption myth being called out for what it is. Some will find this uncomfortable no doubt.

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------


It doesn't have an open border with France!

https://www.ft.com/content/2d30482c-...9-c64b1c09b482

It does. I.ve been there in the Geneva area.


---------- Post added at 14:52 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Custom tariffs aren’t the same as the VAT.

But the tariff value all filters down into the EU VAT levy. So that can be managed.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

would you need to work out the tariffs if it’s VAT? And how does it work with Switzerland which is not in the CU but has open border with France?

Switzerland Is an Associate Member of the Schengen Area, which allows free movement of people.

https://www.ft.com/content/2d30482c-...9-c64b1c09b482

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https://www.ft.com/content/2d30482c-...9-c64b1c09b482

As you come to the end of the airport approach road and hang a right, aiming to drive through Geneva city centre and then back into France, you are immediately stopped by heavy border infrastructure.

Three beige buildings with French and Swiss customs confront you, along with offices for both tax authorities. Europeans, accustomed to crossing other internal land borders within the EU, find this quite odd. Switzerland is part of the EU’s Schengen area, so there are no passport checks required for entry. For food and almost all tradeable industrial and agricultural goods, Switzerland’s regulations are also fully aligned with those of the EU. Both sides accept the others’ regulations. In reality, the Swiss copy and paste Brussels regulations into their domestic laws, allowing the landlocked state effectively to be a member of the EU single market for goods.

Border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary, however, because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border with sometimes significant delays.

The French worry that someone might, for example, buy a frighteningly expensive Swiss watch, receive a Swiss tax refund since the watch is for export, and then not declare it for French VAT. The Swiss rigorously check that people have not spent more than €300 each on goods from France, depriving its exchequer of sales taxes.

For trading companies, each load requires a customs declaration, multiple forms and stamps by the tax authorities to ensure that the formalities are closed on each side before goods cross the tax border. Within the Union none of this applies because complete regulatory alignment is married to an EU VAT regime, all within the customs union. This VAT system has its problems, but ensures that goods can flow across borders with no formalities.

The Swiss-French border is efficient. There are no applicable tariffs. Regulations for goods are fully aligned. There is a common travel area between the two countries without the need for passport checks. But the border requires hard infrastructure because Switzerland is not in the EU VAT regime nor its customs union. Border frictions have separated markets either side of the border to the detriment of consumers.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It does. I.ve been there in the Geneva area.

I've been there too. Read the article again - there is a common travel area but try driving an HGV across and you'll appreciate the difference.