Coronavirus (OLD)

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Do you think there isn't already a bidding war for PPE.



Source

I don't think for a minute that there isn't to be honest but at least this way, the EU and a few other nations aren't competing against each other for the same products. Plus bulk buying (€1.5bn on PPE and €750m on ventilators) often works out cheaper.

Nothing to stop nation states buying their own kit of course but delegating the procurement can help. It's why NHS procurement at the trust level is such a dumb idea

[nomadking]

Surely an EU scheme entails the EU also being in control of allocation and complete control of purchasing. The UK wouldn't been able to buy anything, only the EU would've been allowed to. Otherwise the UK and other EU countries would be bidding against the EU itself.


Has the EU scheme achieved anything yet? Apparently not, so joining or not joining is a complete irrelevance, as the current situation wouldn't have been any better.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Were you blessed with this knowledge back in March when the decisioon to join or not was made?

That, as I’m sure you know, is totally irrelevant.

NHS England has started compiling deaths by the date on which they happened.
The daily figures released by government [atm] represent when deaths are recorded, not when they happened.

The peak - in England at least - seems to have happened on 8 April, experts say.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52374513

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

I don't think for a minute that there isn't to be honest but at least this way, the EU and a few other nations aren't competing against each other for the same products.

Who decides what nations get what amount!

[denphone]

l thought Professor Chris Whitty made some very key points today as he stated that “very socially disruptive” measures would almost certainly have to remain in force for the rest of the year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...latest-updates

He also said that we are going to have to do a lot of things for really quite a long period of time, the question is what is the best package and this is what we’re trying to work out.

In the long run, the exit from this is going to be one of two things, ideally. A vaccine, and there are a variety of ways they can be deployed ... or, and/or, highly effective drugs so that people stop dying of this disease even if they catch it, or which can prevent this disease in vulnerable people.

Until we have those, and the probability of having those any time in the next calendar year are incredibly small and I think we should be realistic about that.

We’re going to have to rely on other social measures, which of course are very socially disruptive as everyone is finding at the moment.

But until that point, that is what we will have to do but it will be the best combination that maximises the outlooks but it’s going to take a long time and I think we need to be aware of that.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Surely an EU scheme entails the EU also being in control of allocation and complete control of purchasing. The UK wouldn't been able to buy anything, only the EU would've been allowed to. Otherwise the UK and other EU countries would be bidding against the EU itself.


Has the EU scheme achieved anything yet? Apparently not, so joining or not joining is a complete irrelevance, as the current situation wouldn't have been any better.

So, when I placed my online food shopping order at Morrison, it was a complete irrelevance for the three weeks until the food arrived?

Best cancel it then...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So, when I placed my online food shopping order at Morrison, it was a complete irrelevance for the three weeks until the food arrived?

Best cancel it then...

What has that got to do with anything?
The criticism is about current, recent past, and near future supply. The EU scheme is merely theoretical as it hasn't yet produced anything physical. Even if we had joined whatever the scheme is meant to be, it wouldn't have improved the current, recent past, or near future supply situation.
If anything, it PROVES we shouldn't have joined the scheme, as it couldn't be relied upon to provide anything. We would be idly waiting for whatever the EU sent our way, rather being able to make our own arrangements.
A bit like waiting for a supermarket delivery, when you're(not personally) perfectly able to go to the shops yourselves, and then complaining when they don't have certain items in stock, and haven't made sensible replacements and so are short on what you expected.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by denphone

l thought Professor Chris Whitty made some very key points today as he stated that “very socially disruptive” measures would almost certainly have to remain in force for the rest of the year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...latest-updates

Especially as WHO are now saying that only 2 or 3% seem to be developing immunity:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...20-4?r=US&IR=T

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

So, when I placed my online food shopping order at Morrison, it was a complete irrelevance for the three weeks until the food arrived?
:

No ETA for the EU has been given...”soon”. Is the best they can come up with.

If it was say 2 months before your order arrived? What then? You’d have to do something or go hungry...................


In the mean time the U.K. has nipped to the shops.

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:20 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Especially as WHO are now saying that only 2 or 3% seem to be developing immunity:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...20-4?r=US&IR=T

No they’re not saying that, bottom line is they don’t know enough yet.

Also the question mark is around the tests

Van Kerkhove said: "Right now, we have no evidence that the use of a serological test can show that an individual has immunity or is protected from reinfection." Serological tests are those which test the blood for antibodies.

They don’t know. However I am yet to see lots of reports of people being re-infected.

Originally Posted by Pierre

No ETA for the EU has been given...”soon”. Is the best they can come up with.

If it was say 2 months before your order arrived? What then? You’d have to do something or go hungry...................


In the mean time the U.K. has nipped to the shops.

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:20 ----------



No they’re not saying that, bottom line is they don’t know enough yet.

Also the question mark is around the tests



They don’t know. However I am yet to see lots of reports of people being re-infected.

As have the EU, so not sure of your point...

The point of the EU Procurement Exercise was to provide a central stockpile, using co-ordinated mass buying power, to be called off as required after delivery, with regular agreed future orders, rather than individual countries having to continually scrabble around competing against the rest of the world.

Consortiums get better deals, as they have more buying power - it’s how procurement works...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

What has that got to do with anything?
The criticism is about current, recent past, and near future supply. The EU scheme is merely theoretical as it hasn't yet produced anything physical. Even if we had joined whatever the scheme is meant to be, it wouldn't have improved the current, recent past, or near future supply situation.
If anything, it PROVES we shouldn't have joined the scheme, as it couldn't be relied upon to provide anything. We would be idly waiting for whatever the EU sent our way, rather being able to make our own arrangements.
A bit like waiting for a supermarket delivery, when you're(not personally) perfectly able to go to the shops yourselves, and then complaining when they don't have certain items in stock, and haven't made sensible replacements and so are short on what you expected.

I'm not sure it's early enough to say this yet.

[nomadking]

The thing to remember is that if you get it and recover, you can still have it in your system. After all, how else is an immune system meant to work if the virus or whatever, is not in your blood for it to attack? The immune system doesn't raise an invisible shield around you. It just manages to keep it under control.

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:46 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm not sure it's early enough to say this yet.

So when exactly is this EU scheme expected to deliver anything? It's a seller's market, so discounts aren't going to be had.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

As have the EU, so not sure of your point...

It’s not difficult Hugh.

The may have “placed an order” but nothing has arrived and there doesn’t seem to be a hard delivery date.

U.K. has physically gone to Turkey put the items in the trolley and gone home with them.

The point of the EU Procurement Exercise was to provide a central stockpile, using co-ordinated mass buying power, to be called off as required after delivery, with regular agreed future orders, rather than individual countries having to continually scrabble around competing against the rest of the world.

Well it hasn’t provided anything yet.

Also there is no detail as to how the stockpile will be managed, who will manage it and who will get what and when.

What if we put all our faith in this EU scheme and nothing turned up for 3-4 weeks and when it did a lesser amount arrived in the first shipment and we got allocated a smaller % than Italy and Spain, and not enough for our needs.....................

No doubt the media would be very understanding that we didn’t go out and procure our own stuff?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

U.K. has physically gone to Turkey put the items in the trolley and gone home with them.

Nope, they only got some of it. A bit like my first few attempts at shopping post lock-down.

Turkey PPE supplier doesn't have enough stock to meet UK order - as first batch lands
A commercial supplier in Turkey did not have enough stock to fulfil an order for 84 tonnes of protective equipment supposed to be bound for the UK, Turkish officials have said.
British sources said the UK government was working with the company and the Turkish authorities to secure the shipment "as soon as possible" - though no time frame was given.