Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

This is an interesting piece on the Lugano Convention. I'm sure that leavers will be falling over themselves to agree with its statement "The EU's pretence that the UK is a third-country like any other is a misrepresentation of reality."

To me, it shows the time is ripe to ditch Frost and replace him with someone who genuinely wants to build a strong relationship with the EU.
https://euobserver.com/opinion/152521

[Sephiroth]

We must not build a relationship whete they call the shots. How would you achieve that, Andrew?

[Carth]

It's just another 'opinion piece', this one by a former Labour MEP and a former Italian diplomat.

We all have opinions, I doubt mine would make it to print

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

We must not build a relationship whete they call the shots. How would you achieve that, Andrew?

By adopting a non-perfidious approach.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

By adopting a non-perfidious approach.

From which side?

in before Sephiroth

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

It's just another 'opinion piece', this one by a former Labour MEP and a former Italian diplomat.

We all have opinions, I doubt mine would make it to print

We all have opinions but people are more interested in hearing the opinions of those who have worked in the area than us randoms plucked from the internet.

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Carth

From which side?

in before Sephiroth

Seph cited "we" presumably meaning the UK.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

We all have opinions but people are more interested in hearing the opinions of those who have worked in the area than us randoms plucked from the internet.

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------


Seph cited "we" presumably meaning the UK.

Nah. How would YOU sort out a relationship where the EU don’t call the shots?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Nah. How would YOU sort out a relationship where the EU don’t call the shots?

That's called fantasy politics.

In the current situation, honesty and good communication with EU and with the UK electorate is key. Hence the need for a trustworthy, fresh face at the negotiating table.

[Carth]

You really want someone honest & trustworthy facing the EU across the negotiating table?

I think a second hand car salesman would be a better option . . they'd be more aware of the clever wording of the small print

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's called fantasy politics.

In the current situation, honesty and good communication with EU and with the UK electorate is key. Hence the need for a trustworthy, fresh face at the negotiating table.

I've no quarrel with a new face at the negotiating table - though I don't think VdL comes to the table with clean hands.

But how does that ensure that whatever emerges is a solution whereby the EU does not call the shots?

Originally Posted by Carth

You really want someone honest & trustworthy facing the EU across the negotiating table?

I think a second hand car salesman would be a better option . . they'd be more aware of the clever wording of the small print

That’s not a problem, as I’m sure any deal would undergo suitable extensive Parliamentary scrutiny, with plenty of time to spot any ‘gotchas’…

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

That’s not a problem, as I’m sure any deal would undergo suitable extensive Parliamentary scrutiny, with plenty of time to spot any ‘gotchas’…

Parliamentary people who are prone to leaving classified documents on park benches or the back seat of a taxi wouldn't notice small print if it was written on the inside of their eyelids

A second hand care salesman however, knows exactly the contents and whereabouts of those 'oh so important' documents . . . right up until the cheque clears, after which he's unavailable for further comment on why the paint ran in the car wash, the brakes squeal, and why the headlights have started acting like indicators. That's the man to negotiate for us

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But how does that ensure that whatever emerges is a solution whereby the EU does not call the shots?

That's for a deft negotiator to sort out but they are the larger entity. What cards do we hold?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But how does that ensure that whatever emerges is a solution whereby the EU does not call the shots?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's for a deft negotiator to sort out but they are the larger entity. What cards do we hold?

I'll get in before my good friend Carth!

Your answer is very clear: There is little chance of even a deft negotiator improving relations with the EU to the extent that the EU does not then call the shots.

If you know that, why would you suggest that we improve relations with the EU? Why would you settle for the EU calling the shots in any "improved" relationship?

How are you going to wriggle out of this one?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'll get in before my good friend Carth!

Your answer is very clear: There is little chance of even a deft negotiator improving relations with the EU to the extent that the EU does not then call the shots.

If you know that, why would you suggest that we improve relations with the EU? Why would you settle for the EU calling the shots in any "improved" relationship?

How are you going to wriggle out of this one?

You need to own your decision to vote for Johnson and Brexit and not try and push the responsibility for sorting the situation out onto others.

Your MP may be worth consulting - after all it was he who said 'Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.'

But having a new negotiator will engender much-needed trust so that's one piece of advice I can give you.