Brexit discussion

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Mr K

He's got to have something to fall back when Brexit reality hits the rest of us !

something to fall back on??

Like the money he earns as an MP isn't enough to live on if everything else falls flat on it's bottom?

You Remainers need to stop looking at how the 'rich' will be worse off under Brexit . . they'll always come out in pocket.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

He's being attacked for being completely two-faced - even the Torygraph readers are giving him stick.

If Jacob William Rees-Mogg (MP) is a firm believer in Brexit and believes UK will be successful in future, he should stop working for his own company and withdraw all money/interest in disgust surely ?! He won't because he knows setting up an Investment within the EU protects his money and that's what counts. He's got to have something to fall back when Brexit reality hits the rest of us !

He could maybe join his fellow Brexit disciple Lord Lawson, who has applied for residency in France ! - another true believer who knows what's good for the rest of us, and what's good for them....

You've reached a new level of left wing fantasy with that one, Mr K!

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Carth

something to fall back on??

Like the money he earns as an MP isn't enough to live on if everything else falls flat on it's bottom?

Ummm...what? He and his wife have a net worth of over 100 million (if not more) and you think as a basic amount, a salary of 75 000 is enough for him to live on??

You Remainers need to stop looking at how the 'rich' will be worse off under Brexit . . they'll always come out in pocket.

The rich will be absolutely fine, whichever way.

It will (and has always) be the poor that suffer.

Every. Single. Time.

---------- Post added at 20:03 ---------- Previous post was at 19:34 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

He's being attacked for being completely two-faced - even the Torygraph readers are giving him stick.

The Torygraph? (Or do you mean the Telegraph?)

If Jacob William Rees-Mogg (MP) is a firm believer in Brexit and believes UK will be successful in future, he should stop working for his own company and withdraw all money/interest in disgust surely ?! He won't because he knows setting up an Investment within the EU protects his money and that's what counts. He's got to have something to fall back when Brexit reality hits the rest of us !

If anything, it is the other way round. If he pulled out all his money (whatever is his and whatever is not, I dunno) then everyone would say "see, without being a member of the EU it is more costly to invest in Europe".

Him keeping his money there is him putting his money where his mouth is - I think. (Though it may have nothing to do with him, like Mick elaborated).

He could maybe join his fellow Brexit disciple Lord Lawson, who has applied for residency in France ! - another true believer who knows what's good for the rest of us, and what's good for them....

To be fair though, at no point did any of the leave folks say that every leave voter should stay in the UK though. They said leaving the EU was best for the UK, not that them staying in the UK was best for them. Living in France may be what is best for Lawson.

I didn't think he did a good job as chancellor, don't agree with him on Europe but he is free to go live where he wants. (And I would kind of like his daughter to come cook for me some day, too).

[1andrew1]

More mayhem, this time on the Conservative benches with Theresa May sandwiched between Remainers and Leavers. Will be interesting to see how this pans out!

Theresa May faces showdown with rebels over ‘no-deal’ Brexit
Theresa May is facing a major confrontation with pro-European Tory rebels after they accused her of reneging on an “agreed” form of words giving parliament new powers to oversee the final stages of Brexit and block a “no deal” exit from the EU.
Dominic Grieve, the Conservative former attorney-general, said an amendment tabled by Mrs May on Thursday was “unacceptable” and accused her of going back on a deal that the rebels thought they had agreed.
The breakdown of trust between Mrs May and the pro-Europeans is highly dangerous for the prime minister, and leaves her vulnerable to a possible defeat when the flagship EU withdrawal bill returns to the Commons next week.
Mr Grieve and at least a dozen Tory rebels could join with Labour to defeat Mrs May.
Mrs May tabled the crucial amendment just before 5pm — the deadline for consideration in Monday’s debates in the House of Lords — with Westminster waiting to see whether she would take on her pro-European wing or Tory Eurosceptics.

https://www.ft.com/content/3ecdac2a-...3-6c13e5c92914

Alternative article: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8399356.html

[Chloé Palmas]

I am glad that someone else posted that - this is exactly what I mean by May being one of life's "givers". She will just try crowd surf / play the members of parliament, one at a time.

Pro EU members give her a hard time, she tries to placate them.

Leave MPs get pissy, she lets Davis amend griev's proposal.

Same with abortion, same with the issue of Trump, on every issue going. She is one of life's givers. The most humiliated PM the UK will ever see. She just gives in to ever single opposition member and does what they tell her to - her own cabinet even laugh at her, in parliament.

Yesterday's PMqs were just telling:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b09d7a3d79019a

Look at how humiliated and ashen face she is - like her skirt or knickers just fell down in front of the entire parliament.

Her own foreign secretary was laughing at her and she looked absolutely beaten.

This is why it is better to keep her in place - there is no person who will ever be as "humiliate-able" as her, ever again.

When asked about cabinet differences over Europe, before the referendum, William Hague said that there are two types of Tories in regards to Europe: Euro skeptic members who supported staying the EU and Euro Skeptic Tories who favored leaving the EU. That got rapturous laughter from everyone he said it to in the room and I would propose that there are two types of Tory member at the moment:

Those who love to humiliate her from the leave camp

And those who love to humiliate her from the remain camp.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

I am glad that someone else posted that - this is exactly what I mean by May being one of life's "givers". She will just try crowd surf / play the members of parliament, one at a time.

Pro EU members give her a hard time, she tries to placate them.

Leave MPs get pissy, she lets Davis amend griev's proposal.

Same with abortion, same with the issue of Trump, on every issue going. She is one of life's givers. The most humiliated PM the UK will ever see. She just gives in to ever single opposition member and does what they tell her to - her own cabinet even laugh at her, in parliament.

Yesterday's PMqs were just telling:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b09d7a3d79019a

Look at how humiliated and ashen face she is - like her skirt or knickers just fell down in front of the entire parliament.

Her own foreign secretary was laughing at her and she looked absolutely beaten.

This is why it is better to keep her in place - there is no person who will ever be as "humiliate-able" as her, ever again.

When asked about cabinet differences over Europe, before the referendum, William Hague said that there are two types of Tories in regards to Europe: Euro skeptic members who supported staying the EU and Euro Skeptic Tories who favored leaving the EU. That got rapturous laughter from everyone he said it to in the room and I would propose that there are two types of Tory member at the moment:

Those who love to humiliate her from the leave camp

And those who love to humiliate her from the remain camp.

I get that you don't like Mrs May but seriously, do we really want someone in charge of the country at this most critical time who is so spineless?

[Chloé Palmas]

You don't find it in the slightest bit amusing of how literally she takes the whole May Bot issue? (Others pull the strings / have their hand up her butt).

Grant Schnapps led the original move to try oust her, he got smoked by Williamson (so Wiliamson claims) and now Schnapps wants her to stay on as PM - not because he supports her but because he wants his share of the pie. Everyone else got their piece, why doesn't he get some?

You are correct though, it is a serious issue Ianch99 and yes it would be better if she had a shred of dignity after the GE and resigned but she doesn't so why don't we enjoy her humiliation as much as she seems to - what else can we all do but try get our piece of that cake, and eat it, too?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

You don't find it in the slightest bit amusing of how literally she takes the whole May Bot issue? (Others pull the strings / have their hand up her butt).

Grant Schnapps led the original move to try oust her, he got smoked by Williamson (so Wiliamson claims) and now Schnapps wants her to stay on as PM - not because he supports her but because he wants his share of the pie. Everyone else got their piece, why doesn't he get some?

You are correct though, it is a serious issue Ianch99 and yes it would be better if she had a shred of dignity after the GE and resigned but she doesn't so why don't we enjoy her humiliation as much as she seems to - what else can we all do but try get our piece of that cake, and eat it, too?

The most amusing thing is seeing posters on here praising her skills and stating that anything to the contrary is Remainer spin.

[Dave42]

Theresa May fails to appease Tory rebels on Brexit bill
Tory rebels have accused "sneaky" ministers of backtracking on a promise over Brexit legislation, setting up a Commons showdown.

https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-m...snt-sf-twitter

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The most amusing thing is seeing posters on here praising her skills and stating that anything to the contrary is Remainer spin.

Okay don't take this the wrong way (I am not asking you to do my work, I promise) but if i were to go back months on end I assume that yes I would find the odd post supportive of her (due to the fact that she was still promising what she could) but as of late is there seriously one single person on here that still supports her on....anything?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

Okay don't take this the wrong way (I am not asking you to do my work, I promise) but if i were to go back months on end I assume that yes I would find the odd post supportive of her (due to the fact that she was still promising what she could) but as of late is there seriously one single person on here that still supports her on....anything?

You are mostly right except for one point: people will support her, for no other reason, than if she falls, it risks ushering in a Corbyn Government.

This country has been renowned for common sense, middle of the road, no risk, politics. Now we have a choice of a Clown or a Puppet to steer the country through the storms ahead .... depressing ..

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

Okay don't take this the wrong way (I am not asking you to do my work, I promise) but if i were to go back months on end I assume that yes I would find the odd post supportive of her (due to the fact that she was still promising what she could) but as of late is there seriously one single person on here that still supports her on....anything?

I think most of us are speechless at some of these comments, which are frankly naive in the extreme and do not take account of the difficulty of dealing with the lack of a parliamentary majority, dissent within the party in that situation, a hostile EU negotiation process and a host of European countries, each with a different take on the situation.

Seriously, would you expect Corbyn to do better? No way! He can't even gain credibility within his own party.

This is difficult - big time, and whatever you might say about Theresa May, she persists, and she is edging us closer to the finishing line by stealth.

Oh, and by the way, it was the incredulous Labour Opposition that Cabinet members were laughing at in PMQs, not their Leader! Nice little spin you put on that! We saw what you did...

[Chloé Palmas]

Where did I ever say that the leader of the Labour party was laughing at May?

I said it was so bad for the PM, that even her own foreign secretary laughed at Corbyn's joke, which he was the inspiration for.

Now, onto your other points.

Would Corbyn do better? Well, he couldn't do worse, that is for sure. (Though I am not sure where you are translating my loathing of May into support for Corbyn).

Right, now to the issue of how difficult the job is. Simply put : May needs to suck it up. She wants the job of PM (and couldn't do the honorable thing and quit) then she needs to quit whining, grow a pair and be competent at her job. Which she is clearly not. She is woeful. There was an article I read today, about her and who else would be better for the job.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/652427...t-theresa-may/

I'll copy and post of some of the snippets of the article:

CAN you think of anyone who would do a worse job of shepherding this country towards Brexit than Theresa May?

I’ve been thinking about this for a while. So far all I’ve come up with is Iggle Piggle, from TV’s In The Night Garden.

I think negotiating Brexit would be a stretch for the friendly blue woollen creature with the red Mohawk.

But maybe I’ve got him wrong, underestimated his abilities. He has a bell in his left foot. Theresa May seems to have a brain in her left foot. Given the choice, maybe I’d take the kid with the bell.

This part of it hits the nail on the head:

One moment we’re told the Prime Minister has caved in to their demands. Next minute she hasn’t. Nobody knows quite what to believe.

She is tip-toeing between the two sides solely to stay in power. And she has to be told: It isn’t working. It sends out a message to the people we are negotiating with that we haven’t a clue what’s going on.

This is all she ever does, whores herself out to every single side. One side wants more, she gives. Another side wants more, she goes back to them. Going back on her word, every single time. Why? All for the premise of staying in power. She is a power greedy tramp.

Some will argue May can only play the cards she has been dealt. That she has a minority Government and a split in her own party.

Now, this part is like you, when you say:

I think most of us are speechless at some of these comments, which are frankly naive in the extreme and do not take account of the difficulty of dealing with the lack of a parliamentary majority, dissent within the party in that situation, a hostile EU negotiation process and a host of European countries, each with a different take on the situation

This is difficult - big time, and whatever you might say about Theresa May, she persists, and she is edging us closer to the finishing line by stealth.

You know what your comments remind me of?

The people that John Boehner was making fun of in this clip (the Tea Party):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSWe81f3yw

Quit whining and crying - now I get it...like with Hillary, you wanted a coronation, didn't you? Diddums...next are you going to tell me that it is sexist for me to blast May and her policies / her stupidity and her incompetence?

When you say

I think most of us are speechless at some of these comments

you are talking about my comments, right?

When she decided to run for the job, did she expect everyone to roll over and just give her what she wanted, just coz? Did she not expect dissent in her party, or did she want a dictatorship? Did she not think that 27 member states would have a different take on the issue?? Did she think that would get this all handed to her on a plate?

Seriously, does she think that she is queen?

As for the lack of a majority in parliament, that is because the people rejected giving her one. She is useless - she had a majority given to her, she chose to do the honorable thing, and allow the electorate to give her a massive "FU". Though instead of resigning, like she should have, she clings on to power like a desperate pathetic little woman.

She gave Brady a recommendation for a knighthood, so she could avoid him calling as the chair of the committee if enough letters came his way, she doesn't persist. She is the dirtiest little piece of filth Westminster has ever seen as PM. She is a beggar and pathetic, she gives any woman who can stomach her a bad name - she is a disgrace to the entire house, to our gender and makes our entire country look stupid round the entire planet.

You don't strike me as the snowflake type but if you would like me to post more in accordance with her pathetic delicate little sensitivities let me know, and I will pretend that all is well in Narnia and just talk as if we are in a fantasy land.

This is why I love people who have principle, because remain or leave voter, you will have no love for this woman. She is someone who will put her finger up in the air and see which way the wind blows, not a genuine bone of anything, in her body.

[Carth]

I didn't bother taking much notice of the previous post when I saw it was quoted from 'The Sun'

Anyway, if you really want May 'to quit whining, grow a pair and be competent at her job' then you shouldn't moan if she does grow a pair and tells the EU to get lost. She could also tell the 'dissenters' to shut up or she'll replace them with Pro Brexit people . . the door is over there . . .

Not that she's stupid enough to do either of those, because she knows she'll get slammed by the public & media for being 'a bully strong character'

[ianch99]

There is a wierd paradox approaching where Mrs May after concluding a deal with the EU, is trying not to get this deal approved by Parliament.

The tragic irony is that a lot of Leave voters voted specifically "to take back control" as promoted by:

1. Nigel Farage
“I believe in Britain. A Britain outside of the EU with an exciting future ahead of it. A proud, patriotic country that has control of its borders, represents itself on the world stage and makes its own laws in our own sovereign Parliament.”

2. Michael Gove
“I believe - as a matter of deep principle - in Parliamentary democracy. I believe that the laws which govern us all should be made by politicians accountable to the people. I believe that our membership of the European Union undermines that precious principle.”

3. Boris Johnson
“We have given so much to the world, in ideas and culture, but the most valuable British export and the one for which we are most famous is the one that is now increasingly in question: Parliamentary democracy – the way the people express their power.”

4. Daniel Hannan
“There are several ways to square the circle. For example, having taken back Parliamentary sovereignty, the UK could agree to continue with some of its existing programmes and obligations through bilateral treaties, either open-endedly or for a guaranteed period of time.”

5. Leave.EU
“Vote to leave the EU to ensure law-making power returns to our sovereign national Parliament.”

They stressed time and time again that the British Parliament must be sovereign ... except when it has the opportunity to assess the most important piece of legislation in 50+ years.

What times we live in