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Old 11-09-2020, 17:43   #151
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Re: U.S Election 2020

Reallocate funds where and in what way?

Will it be TV adverts saying that 'crime doesn't pay'?
Printing and delivering leaflets to the 'poorer' areas, stating that jobs are out there if you look hard enough?
A few hundred more 'drop in centers' where people tell you drugs are no good for society?
How about 'social awareness personnel' visiting schools and passing the message on that doing homework leads to a better life than stealing cars?


. . any ideas that might work, that haven't already been tried?
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Old 11-09-2020, 17:47   #152
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Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan View Post
What if instead of saying "defund the police", we instead say "reallocate funds to prevent crime"?

Same difference.
No it isn't. The funding crime protection at the expense of an effective police force is pie in the sky. Criminals don't recognise do-goodism.

What's happened to you, Kush?
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Old 11-09-2020, 17:54   #153
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Re: U.S Election 2020

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
In what universe is this the same thing?

Defund the Police means they get no funds at all, reallocate funds to where else that combats crime, surely that's the function of an authoritative body, um, that's commonly known as the police?
From that Radical magazine, Good Housekeeping.

Quote:
It's a common misconception that "defunding the police" means completely stripping law enforcement of all of their funding. While while some organizations are indeed calling for the abolishment or dismantling of police altogether, "defunding the police" simply means reducing police department budgets and redistributing those funds towards essential social services that are often underfunded, such as housing, education, employment, mental health care, and youth services.
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/lif...olice-meaning/
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Old 11-09-2020, 18:04   #154
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Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
No it isn't. The funding crime protection at the expense of an effective police force is pie in the sky. Criminals don't recognise do-goodism.

What's happened to you, Kush?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth View Post
Reallocate funds where and in what way?

Will it be TV adverts saying that 'crime doesn't pay'?
Printing and delivering leaflets to the 'poorer' areas, stating that jobs are out there if you look hard enough?
A few hundred more 'drop in centers' where people tell you drugs are no good for society?
How about 'social awareness personnel' visiting schools and passing the message on that doing homework leads to a better life than stealing cars?


. . any ideas that might work, that haven't already been tried?
How about this paper from 1998:



Or this one from 2002: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_a_difference

Quote:
Our analyses suggest that COPS hiring and innovative grant programs have resulted in significant reductions in local crime rates in cities with populations greater than 10,000 for both violent and nonviolent offenses. Multivariate analysis shows that in cities with populations greater than 10,000, an increase in one dollar of hiring grant funding per resident contributed to a corresponding decline of 5.26 violent crimes and 21.63 property crimes per 100,000 residents.
The research is out there and it's plentiful. Preventative measures save more money than just throwing more police at it.

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What's happened to you, Kush?
I never lost my compassion for my fellow man. What happened to you?
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Old 11-09-2020, 18:30   #155
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Re: U.S Election 2020

@Kushan

You have to catch persistent (or any) ofenders first. Needs a decent police force.

The problem with some younger people is that they have little life experience beyond their adolescence/childhood and they think they know best. You and I both know that. Altruism always fails.

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Old 11-09-2020, 19:20   #156
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Re: U.S Election 2020

Why are you bringing the debate about young people into this thread as well? Is there anything that isn't young people's fault?

As stated, Seph, nobody's saying get rid of the police or remove all funding, that's a misrepresentation of the argument. However it's clear that, where America is concerned, the police have largely failed in their job to prevent crime. The disproportionate responses, particularly amongst black people, has gone on too long with too little done. It's clear that spending money doing the same things over and over isn't working, so it's time to spend some of that money elsewhere.

Preventative action is better and cheaper than reactive action.
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Old 11-09-2020, 19:28   #157
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Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan View Post
How about this paper from 1998:



Or this one from 2002: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_a_difference



The research is out there and it's plentiful. Preventative measures save more money than just throwing more police at it.

Given the state of the USA, I'd cautiously suggest neither of the above have worked particularly well to reduce crime. Of course, the lack of job opportunities doesn't help . . which is something I think Trump was trying to address?
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Old 11-09-2020, 19:32   #158
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Re: U.S Election 2020

Poverty does lead to crime, I certainly agree with that. Get people out of poverty and crime drops significantly.
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Old 11-09-2020, 19:50   #159
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Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan View Post
Why are you bringing the debate about young people into this thread as well? Is there anything that isn't young people's fault?

As stated, Seph, nobody's saying get rid of the police or remove all funding, that's a misrepresentation of the argument. However it's clear that, where America is concerned, the police have largely failed in their job to prevent crime. The disproportionate responses, particularly amongst black people, has gone on too long with too little done. It's clear that spending money doing the same things over and over isn't working, so it's time to spend some of that money elsewhere.

Preventative action is better and cheaper than reactive action.
You may have a point there!
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Old 12-09-2020, 02:37   #160
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Re: U.S Election 2020

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
From that Radical magazine, Good Housekeeping.



https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/lif...olice-meaning/
And they and you are wrong as well, as all know what BLM protestors were calling for in some of those States the in the US, for the complete removal of the police.

So I reiterate, in what universe does it mean to Defund, to not mean not remove funds in their entirety, I do not want the pathetic communist and leftist understanding of it thrown at me.
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Old 13-09-2020, 20:08   #161
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Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
And they and you are wrong as well, as all know what BLM protestors were calling for in some of those States the in the US, for the complete removal of the police.

This is what's called a strawman argument. You're deliberately misrepresenting the argument to make it easier to attack.

Nobody in this thread is suggesting to get rid of the police and that misconception has been addressed several times. You are point blank refusing to accept this by saying "they and you are wrong".

How can we be wrong about our own point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
So I reiterate, in what universe does it mean to Defund, to not mean not remove funds in their entirety, I do not want the pathetic communist and leftist understanding of it thrown at me.
Simple: This universe. The one you refuse to engage in.
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Old 15-09-2020, 13:37   #162
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Re: U.S Election 2020

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...an-jets-414883
Quote:
A digital ad released by a fundraising arm of the Trump campaign on Sept. 11 calling on people to “support our troops” uses a stock photo of Russian-made fighter jets and weapons.

The ad, which was made by the Trump Make America Great Again Committee*, features silhouettes of three soldiers walking as a fighter jet flies over them...

... After this story was published, the creator of the image, Arthur Zakirov, confirmed in a Facebook message that it shows a 3D model of a MiG-29, and that the soldiers were Russian models.

* The Trump Make America Great Again Committee is run by both the Republican National Committee and the campaign.
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Old 15-09-2020, 17:01   #163
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Re: U.S Election 2020

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Old 15-09-2020, 17:27   #164
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Re: U.S Election 2020

https://apple.news/A4okVB9eKSDusZx-G12idhg

Trump apparently ahead of Biden on the Latino vote
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Old 15-09-2020, 18:05   #165
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Re: U.S Election 2020

Florida looks like it'll be close. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ While the other states have had stable polls Flordia is the main one edging away from Biden.
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