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Crisis in the NHS
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Old 07-01-2017, 18:06   #16
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
No you are not turning this topic in to one of your pathetic brexit bashing sessions.

If you want to blame the reason the NHS is in the state it is, blame the foreign freeloaders, which this government is now doing something about by introducing passport checks, to ensure people who are not entitled to free healthcare while visiting here, now pay for it.

Too little, too late IMO, we have let far too many people from other EU states, who don't work and scrounge on our benefit system, settle here, straining our NHS healthcare to breaking point.
Absolute rubbish .The problems with the NHS are varied .I'm sure that immigrants play their part in overloading the NHS the same as they do with other services but so do our own non workers and our own elderly but the real reason is that we simply don't pay enough for it .Instead of having real wages so people can live and pay taxes to support themselves and the services we want we have pitiful wages where people work and receive benefits .
When people are as narrow minded as you are it's easy to keep blaming one section of society and avoiding the real issues .The only way the NHS will survive is if we actually pay for it and with a rising and aging population ,increased costs ,better technology and more advanced medicine in general the costs are only ever going to rise regardless of whether we are in Europe or not
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Old 07-01-2017, 18:41   #17
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post

We also need to stop the knee jerk calls of racism when anyone attempts to highlight the problems from non uk citizens. We can't afford it anymore and it isn't fair to the wider public.
Quite right. The NHS has obviously began to see the problem with foreign free loaders but they should have introduced the new measures years ago.
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Old 07-01-2017, 20:16   #18
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Most of those are not at all. I am on about the many freeloaders who do NOT work and no we definitely are not dependent on the immigrants, who come here to ride the benefit gravy train and then drain NHS resources to boot.
Sounds to me like health tourists play only a minimal role in the nhs' problems. Seems to me to be deliberate government idiological policy to run it into the ground and then tell us the only way to save it is for private companies to run it

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...tually-9307953
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Old 07-01-2017, 20:52   #19
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

The NHS is an unsustainable behemoth the way it currently set up, managed and funded.

Throwing more money at it is not the answer, you could treble/ quadruple/ quintuple it's funding and it still wouldn't be enough.

It needs to be taken out of government control and run by an independent body, with government oversight. Purchasing and procurement should be centralised so the buying power of the NHS is used. We should be telling the drug manufacturers what we're going to pay for their product, if they want to sell to us, if not we go elsewhere (for the drugs where that is possible) for other drugs we should be able to get great deals in return for volume, not play postcode lotteries.

A clear descriptor of what is available on the NHS, charges should be levied for certain elective procedures where people have the funds.

Complete ban on foreign nationals getting free health unless it is in an emergency.

There is loads that could be done, if only we had a government with the balls to it. Problem is whenever you say NHS reform everybody freaks out over it. It's some sacred cow that can't be touched no matter how dysfunctional it is.
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Old 07-01-2017, 21:13   #20
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Sounds to me like health tourists play only a minimal role in the nhs' problems. Seems to me to be deliberate government idiological policy to run it into the ground and then tell us the only way to save it is for private companies to run it

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...tually-9307953
Apparently Jeremy Hunt has gone into hiding. Suspect he will reappear with his private sector chums to see what mega profits they can make. All going to plan for Jeremy.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7514811.html
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Old 08-01-2017, 00:06   #21
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

I will be totally honest with members. Some remarks about the cleaning work etc etc that some people wont do, but others will.

The NHS I in crisis, as some party, wont put money into it. And stop bloody freeloaders cming here. And using it for free.

I have worked in hospitals as part of cleaning contractors. And our wage was low. And yet hospitals were paying agency staff to come in and do the cleaning.

I was in an AE one night, after my wife was nearly killed in a car crash. And l can tell you that l was fuming.
My mother in law had to be cut out of a car, my wife was driving. As the MIL was taking straight into AE, my wife who had whiplash BUT walked int the hospital. Was told to wait in the waiting room.

As l approached the reception - l had just arrived from work. There were several people with MINOR alilmets such as a cough, cuts to fingers. And another young lad who was RUNNING round the waiting room. And my wife was in agony.

I approached the recetionship to ask WHY, my wasn't seen yet, as she was in the same car as my MIL. She was told to wait.

Have a guesss who was seen first. It wasn't my wife. She had to wait FOUR HOURS. By then everyone else had gone.

The NHS has great staff. BUT, management has to change, get rid of the freeloaders. IF you don't have a NHS number, you don't get seen, simple as that.

I have been ashamed of this country, at the way it pussyfoots around people that use our Hospitals like it was aa hotel.

And no l don't believe that we should all pay extra tax, or the service go private.

It made me laugh when l read an article from Joker Corbyn today. He demand answers about it from Miss. May.

She will tell him to shut up. And he will cower like a kid in a corner. He is NT tough enough to challenge her on anything.

We need to bring in Hospital matrons, who who tell patients, if they need treatment at hospital or not.

About 12 months ago. I couldn't get a GP appointment, as l was getting chest pains and tingling in my fingers. Went to West Middlesex Hospital. As the waiting room was busy and full up. They sent me back to the GP for assessment.

Two days later, l collapsed at work and rushed to hospital. Luckily, it was discovered nothing seriously wrong with my heart.

hospital's are NOT a placed to go if you have a minor problem. Go to the chemist and ask them. They have given me loads of advice.

Sorry to go on. But it gets my goat, when people knock the NHS. We need funding each year. We need the money back from people that abuse the system. But that chance is very slim

I bet if everyone on this forum checked there local newspapers, and ask how much money was wasted on this year, as hospitals cannot recoup the money that people from OVERSEAs, and that includes the Migrants already here. it will run into millions.

I believe ONE HOPSITAL TRUST LAST YEAR tried to recoup £500.00 which was owed. Couldn't because, they didn't have the proper details of those patients.
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Old 08-01-2017, 02:55   #22
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu View Post
I will be totally honest with members. Some remarks about the cleaning work etc etc that some people wont do, but others will.

The NHS I in crisis, as some party, wont put money into it. And stop bloody freeloaders cming here. And using it for free.

I have worked in hospitals as part of cleaning contractors. And our wage was low. And yet hospitals were paying agency staff to come in and do the cleaning.

I was in an AE one night, after my wife was nearly killed in a car crash. And l can tell you that l was fuming.
My mother in law had to be cut out of a car, my wife was driving. As the MIL was taking straight into AE, my wife who had whiplash BUT walked int the hospital. Was told to wait in the waiting room.

As l approached the reception - l had just arrived from work. There were several people with MINOR alilmets such as a cough, cuts to fingers. And another young lad who was RUNNING round the waiting room. And my wife was in agony.

I approached the recetionship to ask WHY, my wasn't seen yet, as she was in the same car as my MIL. She was told to wait.

Have a guesss who was seen first. It wasn't my wife. She had to wait FOUR HOURS. By then everyone else had gone.

The NHS has great staff. BUT, management has to change, get rid of the freeloaders. IF you don't have a NHS number, you don't get seen, simple as that.

I have been ashamed of this country, at the way it pussyfoots around people that use our Hospitals like it was aa hotel.

And no l don't believe that we should all pay extra tax, or the service go private.

It made me laugh when l read an article from Joker Corbyn today. He demand answers about it from Miss. May.

She will tell him to shut up. And he will cower like a kid in a corner. He is NT tough enough to challenge her on anything.

We need to bring in Hospital matrons, who who tell patients, if they need treatment at hospital or not.

About 12 months ago. I couldn't get a GP appointment, as l was getting chest pains and tingling in my fingers. Went to West Middlesex Hospital. As the waiting room was busy and full up. They sent me back to the GP for assessment.

Two days later, l collapsed at work and rushed to hospital. Luckily, it was discovered nothing seriously wrong with my heart.

hospital's are NOT a placed to go if you have a minor problem. Go to the chemist and ask them. They have given me loads of advice.

Sorry to go on. But it gets my goat, when people knock the NHS. We need funding each year. We need the money back from people that abuse the system. But that chance is very slim

I bet if everyone on this forum checked there local newspapers, and ask how much money was wasted on this year, as hospitals cannot recoup the money that people from OVERSEAs, and that includes the Migrants already here. it will run into millions.

I believe ONE HOPSITAL TRUST LAST YEAR tried to recoup £500.00 which was owed. Couldn't because, they didn't have the proper details of those patients.
Blimey five hundred quid, things must be bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Quite right. The NHS has obviously began to see the problem with foreign free loaders but they should have introduced the new measures years ago.
You're in good company, although as a general rule I've found the position oposite to Arthur's is usually the correct one to adopt, based mainly on things like facts, reality, that sorta thing
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:34   #23
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Blimey five hundred quid, things must be bad



You're in good company, although as a general rule I've found the position oposite to Arthur's is usually the correct one to adopt, based mainly on things like facts, reality, that sorta thing
Well, my sorta thing is based on experience in working in the healthcare system, so your general rule kinda sucks.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:44   #24
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Well, my sorta thing is based on experience in working in the healthcare system, so your general rule kinda sucks.
It's served me well after all these years, it is a general rule though. Care to share your experiences, figures on a sheet or in a newspaper are easily manipulated so it'd be good to hear first hand of the coal face from someone who deals with it on a day to day basis.
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Old 08-01-2017, 05:07   #25
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
It's served me well after all these years, it is a general rule though. Care to share your experiences, figures on a sheet or in a newspaper are easily manipulated so it'd be good to hear first hand of the coal face from someone who deals with it on a day to day basis.
Sorry, not a bean counter so don't do figures but it sorta goes like this.... Foreign freeloaders come to visit, get free healthcare then go back home and then they tell their family and friends to come get their freebies too.

Never heard of the term Health Tourism? : https://fullfact.org/health/health-t...-and-who-pays/

So yeah, um, Health Tourism is big issue leaving the NHS a £2bn black hole in unpaid and unrecoverable charges each year and that cost is rising. Hence why very soon, people will need to take their passport with them when they go to hospital to prove they are entitled to free healthcare and receive treatment. Passport checking is already happening but it's not full scale as of yet.
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Old 08-01-2017, 08:04   #26
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Sorry, not a bean counter so don't do figures but it sorta goes like this.... Foreign freeloaders come to visit, get free healthcare then go back home and then they tell their family and friends to come get their freebies too.

Never heard of the term Health Tourism? : https://fullfact.org/health/health-t...-and-who-pays/

So yeah, um, Health Tourism is big issue leaving the NHS a £2bn black hole in unpaid and unrecoverable charges each year and that cost is rising. Hence why very soon, people will need to take their passport with them when they go to hospital to prove they are entitled to free healthcare and receive treatment. Passport checking is already happening but it's not full scale as of yet.
Funnily enough I have heard of the term health tourist, I used it myself in post 18 when I was questioning the professor who quoted the 2 billion figure and you don't need a passport to visit A&E which is where most of the costs are incurred, which even your link states doesn't cost 2 billion

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...2&postcount=18
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:22   #27
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

What about the impact of an ageing population? The obesity crisis? According to this: http://www.itv.com/news/2016-03-21/f...besity-crisis/ deal with the problems and complications of diabetes costs 10% of the NHS budget alone.

Health tourism should obviously be addressed but even at £1.8 billion it's not top of the list of problems facing the NHS. According to this dealing with the effects of binge drinking costs £3.5 billion a year not including dealing with any long term effects of it either.

Again it's something we could do to help the budget but it's not the cause of the problems. Not everything is the fault of immigrants/foreigners.

---------- Post added at 10:22 ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 ----------

As for needing immigrants in the NHS well we probably do to an extent: https://fullfact.org/immigration/imm...-and-nhs-staff. They make up 5% of the overall staff but they're over represented in the higher roles making up 10% of doctors. That's only EU migrants. We probably do need those 10% of Doctors....
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:30   #28
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Funnily enough I have heard of the term health tourist, I used it myself in post 18 when I was questioning the professor who quoted the 2 billion figure and you don't need a passport to visit A&E which is where most of the costs are incurred, which even your link states doesn't cost 2 billion

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...2&postcount=18
I never mentioned A&E, I said going to hospital to receive treatment, you know the planned stuff. It still leaves a black hole either way.
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:47   #29
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
What about the impact of an ageing population? The obesity crisis? According to this: http://www.itv.com/news/2016-03-21/f...besity-crisis/ deal with the problems and complications of diabetes costs 10% of the NHS budget alone.

Health tourism should obviously be addressed but even at £1.8 billion it's not top of the list of problems facing the NHS. According to this dealing with the effects of binge drinking costs £3.5 billion a year not including dealing with any long term effects of it either.

Again it's something we could do to help the budget but it's not the cause of the problems. Not everything is the fault of immigrants/foreigners.

---------- Post added at 10:22 ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 ----------

As for needing immigrants in the NHS well we probably do to an extent: https://fullfact.org/immigration/imm...-and-nhs-staff. They make up 5% of the overall staff but they're over represented in the higher roles making up 10% of doctors. That's only EU migrants. We probably do need those 10% of Doctors....


Here's a decent article from the Independent ,they ask 4 senior managers in the NHS the causes of the current crisis .As it happens not one of them say that health tourism is the cause .One of the biggest issues is that the extra money given by the government isn't reaching the front line like GP's .Unless we invest heavily in GP services to treat minor ailments then the next port of call will be the nearest A&E center .Maybe instead of focusing on a 7 day NHS as a whole going for a 7 day GP service to start with may be the way to go

---------- Post added at 10:47 ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I never mentioned A&E, I said going to hospital to receive treatment, you know the planned stuff. It still leaves a black hole either way.

To receive the type of treatment you are talking about you will go via a GP referral or from the A&E .So you should be talking about the E&A

Last edited by martyh; 08-01-2017 at 11:52.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:00   #30
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
As for needing immigrants in the NHS well we probably do to an extent: https://fullfact.org/immigration/imm...-and-nhs-staff. They make up 5% of the overall staff but they're over represented in the higher roles making up 10% of doctors. That's only EU migrants. We probably do need those 10% of Doctors....
Again, like Mr K, you're bringing in an argument that did not exist, yes we need the skilled migrants, but I said about the migrants that come here from other EU nations, who DONT work and just milk the system and the NHS, we don't need those and there are many of them, I'm not going to be so gullible and accept what some parliamentary report says.
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