Brexit (Old)

[jfman]

We will never get the rebate back, nor our exemption from the Euro.

I find it bizarre so many people are happy for a referendum after the fact as opposed to hold a preference that we get it right in the first place!

Originally Posted by jfman

Nowhere were we promised Hard Brexit. Indeed the concept didn’t exist prior to the referendum. Instead we were promised the easiest trade deal ever.

Indeed not. This is because the terms ‘hard’ and ‘soft’ Brexit were coined after the vote by the continuity remain campaign, which was trying to find ways to convince the public Brexit had happened while actually preventing it from happening.

‘Soft’ Brexit as defined by senior remain campaigners involved staying in the customs union and the single market. The EU helpfully clarified that the latter would also have required continuation of the right to free movement.

During the campaign, those same senior remain campaigners were very clear that they believed voting leave would mean fully leaving the EU, CU and SM and all. In fact senior leave campaigners likewise were very clear that voting leave would mean fully leaving the EU, CU and SM and all. It was one of the few things they all agreed about.

On voting day, everyone understood what Brexit meant, and despite calculated attempts at obfuscation since, I think the vast majority of people still do.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

We will never get the rebate back, nor our exemption from the Euro.

I find it bizarre so many people are happy for a referendum after the fact as opposed to hold a preference that we get it right in the first place!

Hilarious that you complained many times of selective answering of posts, but now you’re a master of the art, I salute you.

I don’t have an issue with another referendum, but there are many risks as outlined in my previous post.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Hilarious that you complained many times of selective answering of posts, but now you’re a master of the art, I salute you.

I don’t have an issue with another referendum, but there are many risks as outlined in my previous post.

Please elaborate I’ll addressing specific point you raise.

---------- Post added at 22:40 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Indeed not. This is because the terms ‘hard’ and ‘soft’ Brexit were coined after the vote by the continuity remain campaign, which was trying to find ways to convince the public Brexit had happened while actually preventing it from happening.

‘Soft’ Brexit as defined by senior remain campaigners involved staying in the customs union and the single market. The EU helpfully clarified that the latter would also have required continuation of the right to free movement.

During the campaign, those same senior remain campaigners were very clear that they believed voting leave would mean fully leaving the EU, CU and SM and all. In fact senior leave campaigners likewise were very clear that voting leave would mean fully leaving the EU, CU and SM and all. It was one of the few things they all agreed about.

On voting day, everyone understood what Brexit meant, and despite calculated attempts at obfuscation since, I think the vast majority of people still do.

I’d be happy to agree if your final point was out to a vote.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Please elaborate I’ll addressing specific point you raise.

Ok.

Originally Posted by Pierre

On that we can both agree. One of my main points through this discussion that my previous posts will back up.

You’re absolutely correct, we were promised “Brexit”. But that Brexit was leaving all the EU institutions, including the Single Market and Customs Union. That is what was sent to every home in the UK, and debated. Would you call that a “Hard Brexit”?

Agree/disagree....why etc.

We were, we’ll know when we start negotiating it. We need to sort out the “withdrawal agreement” or not....first.

Agree/disagree etc...

Brexit hasn’t happened yet. We don’t know the effect of Brexit as it hasn’t happened. How can you hold anything to account that hasn’t Happened?
.

Agree/ disagree etc

---------- Post added at 22:49 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

I’d be happy to agree if your final point was out to a vote.

Won’t happen yet, as there is no guarantee Remain will win and for the other reasons I outlined.

[jfman]

I’m quite sure the search function would help you, and any new entrants to the thread, identify my stance. You raised no new meaningful points and I decided to save us from the circular arguments around Brexit as a whole.

If you must I’ll go disagree disagree disagree disagree.

[1andrew1]

Another Brexit referendum will become a "plausible" way forward if there is deadlock in Parliament, Work and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd has said.
She told ITV's Peston that while she did not personally support another vote, the case for one would grow if MPs could not agree another solution.
She said she hoped MPs would back Theresa May's deal with the EU next month but it would be "very difficult".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46626967

[jfman]

Amber “newly promoted” Rudd has a lot of opinions. You’d think they’d have measured the chances of this happening before appointing her. Unless they did...

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m quite sure the search function would help you, and any new entrants to the thread, identify my stance. You raised no new meaningful points and I decided to save us from the circular arguments around Brexit as a whole.

If you must I’ll go disagree disagree disagree disagree.

You are truly pathetic.

3no. Simple questions.

1. Was the version of Brexit promoted before the referendum by all the pro-Remain players, including the Government, what we would call a hard Brexit? Yes/no?

2. You complain that brexiteers claim this would be the easiest trade deal ever and why haven’t they delivered it. Yet the trade deal isn’t up for discussion yet. It is the withdrawal deal we are currently negotiating and voting over. Yes/no?

3. You claim that that MPs are only held to account every 5 years, and pretty much they can say and do what they want inbetween, and deliver sod all, As if they fail we can get rid after that term.

But we can’t wait and see if brexit is delivered, live it for a few years and decide or not If we like it?

For you we have to determine this before the outcome has been realised or lived up through, which goes against all of that. Yes/no?

---------- Post added at 23:12 ---------- Previous post was at 23:11 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Amber “newly promoted” Rudd has a lot of opinions. You’d think they’d have measured the chances of this happening before appointing her. Unless they did...

Another “Stupid Women” is she?

[jfman]

You removed your own right to my reply at “truly pathetic”. You are not worthy of an educated and articulate reply.

I’ll address one single point, solely because of misogyny. I may not agree with Amber Rudd on many things, but she isn’t a stupid woman. I believe her actions are deliberate and a conscious collaboration with another woman who wants to remain. The conscious choice was made to elevate Ms Rudd from bitter backbench MP to prominent Secretary of State.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

You removed your own right to my reply at “truly pathetic”. You are not worthy of an educated and articulate reply.

I’ll address one single point, solely because of misogyny. I may not agree with Amber Rudd on many things, but she isn’t a stupid woman. I believe her actions are deliberate and a conscious collaboration with another woman who wants to remain. The conscious choice was made to elevate Ms Rudd from bitter backbench MP to prominent Secretary of State.

You choose to answer what is convenient to you because you can’t answer the other, very simply, put questions.

You are indeed pathetic.

I’m afraid your stock as someone who can properly debate these issues has seriously decreased.

You can’t answer simple straight questions posed in response to your own argument.

I’m going to retire now. If you can develop a spine for tomorrow, that would be great.

[jfman]

I’ll answer anyone worthy of reply. Once again you use the disrespectful term pathetic and genuinely believe I should reply to you. The mind truly boggles.

It’s good to know I have you on the ropes though, it’s truly a sign the dream is dying.

Of all people to challenge anyone on the basis of selective debating it’s truly laughable to be from you.

[Sephiroth]

I'll bring this back down to earth.

A Leave/Remain referendum was held in 2016. The result was a clear majority for LEAVE. It is the government's obligation to deliver that mandate, either with a deal or without a deal.

The Remainers are not content with following normal democratic rules and are using every wheeze and argument possible to overturn the Referendum result.

To muddy the waters, we have a PM who is very difficult to read. Some think that she is craftily steering us to a 2nd referendum as part of her personal Remain philosophy. Others (and not many I would add) think that she sees it has her solemn/legacy duty to deliver the Leave mandate; I just about give her the benefit of the doubt on that.

As to Amber Rudd, she must have taken lessons in duplicity from the EU or Varadkar.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'll bring this back down to earth.

A Leave/Remain referendum was held in 2016. The result was a clear majority for LEAVE. It is the government's obligation to deliver that mandate, either with a deal or without a deal.

The Remainers are not content with following normal democratic rules and are using every wheeze and argument possible to overturn the Referendum result.

To muddy the waters, we have a PM who is very difficult to read. Some think that she is craftily steering us to a 2nd referendum as part of her personal Remain philosophy. Others (and not many I would add) think that she sees it has her solemn/legacy duty to deliver the Leave mandate; I just about give her the benefit of the doubt on that.

As to Amber Rudd, she must have taken lessons in duplicity from the EU or Varadkar.

The leave choice on the ballot paper, was not the leave sold to us by the leave campaign. - What we were sold, is a huge part of the problem May is trying to resolve, somewhat unsuccessfully.

Some of the posts are bordering on personal abuse - desist this behaviour or infractions will be issued.

I understand passions can run high on this subject, but posters either need to calm down, or leave the thread until they can discuss the subject without perjorative comment, or they will be aided in this.

TLDR - calm down, cut the personal insults.