Will Scotland Leave the UK?

The FT, The Economist, and the Welsh Western Mail also came out for No today.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Qtx

One thing that worries me if the yes voters lose by a small amount, will they feel robbed and forever feel bitter towards being part of the UK? Could it give birth to like a scottish IRA?

No to the second question. The reasons and existence of the IRA is a lot deeper and more complicated than what is happening in Scotland.

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by Damien

Craig Murray hasn't yet explained why he wouldn't or why it's relevant. Also seems to be playing the man rather than the ball.

I'd have thought the relevance was obvious. Don't you think that it would have been worth mentioning?

---------- Post added at 22:38 ---------- Previous post was at 22:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

The FT, The Economist, and the Welsh Western Mail also came out for No today.[COLOR="Silver"]
.

I'm not sure there are many potential Yes voters who read the Welsh Western Mail.

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

I'd have thought the relevance was obvious. Don't you think that it would have been worth mentioning?

Why is it obvious? Where is it anyway? Will inheritance law be null and void post-Yes?

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by Damien

Why is it obvious? Where is the Benshie Estate anyway? Will inheritance law be null and void post-Yes?

I can't find anything about Benshie or the Benshie Estate. All it goes to is an article on the man himself.

The relevant part being that it's in Scotland.
I don't get invited to too many estates so I'm not sure of exact location but I think it's North East.

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

The relevant part being that it's in Scotland.
I don't get invited to too many estates so I'm not sure of exact location but I think it's North East.

But it would be his estate wouldn't it? Why wouldn't his wife inherit it in the aftermath of a Yes vote anyway? It seems to make no difference at all.

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by Damien

But it would be his estate wouldn't it? Why wouldn't his wife inherit it in the aftermath of a Yes vote anyway? It seems to make no difference at all.

You don't see that potentially owning a large chunk of Scotland could sway how you feel about the outcome of an independence referendum? (even if you don't actually have a vote yourself)

If you were in that position and the editor of a national newspaper, and you were influencing your readers in an editorial, do you think that you might mention in passing that you have that interest.... even if it didn't influence your recommendation.

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

You don't see that potentially owning a large chunk of Scotland could sway how you feel about the outcome of an independence referendum? (even if you don't actually have a vote yourself)

If you were in that position and the editor of a national newspaper, and you were influencing your readers in an editorial, do you think that you might mention in passing that you have that interest.... even if it didn't influence your recommendation.

I think that's rather tenuous.

I have no idea of the size of this 'estate'. I can't find any information about it at all and a search for Benshie comes up with nothing. I find it weird that there can be an estate of his size without a single mention on Google other than Murray's post. This place is so illusive that with 30 minutes Murray's blog was the first hit. For all we know it could simple mean 'his estate' rather than 'an estate'.

Leaving that aside I am not sure the extent to which it matters anymore than an editor advocating for lower inheritance taxes has to declare an interest that they may, in future, be paying inheritance tax does. I would say he already had an interest in being a citizen of the United Kingdom. The Scotsman declared for No as well and presumably their editor has interests in Scotland too. Ditto Sunday Herald.

I don't like the idea that anyone who advocates a side in the vote needs to declare their respective interests on either side of the border.

Unless there is something special or different in this case, i.e he would stand to lose the land in a Yes vote, I don't think he needed to declare it.

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by Damien

I think that's rather tenuous.

I have no idea of the size of this 'estate'. I can't find any information about it at all and a search for Benshie comes up with nothing. I find it weird that there can be an estate of his size without a single mention on Google other than Murray's post. This place is so illusive that with 30 minutes Murray's blog was the first hit. For all we know it could simple mean 'his estate' rather than 'an estate'.

Leaving that aside I am not sure the extent to which it matters anymore than an editor advocating for lower inheritance taxes has to declare an interest that they may, in future, be paying inheritance tax does. I would say he already had an interest in being a citizen of the United Kingdom. The Scotsman declared for No as well and presumably their editor has interests in Scotland too. Ditto Sunday Herald.

I don't like the idea that anyone who advocates a side in the vote needs to declare their respective interests on either side of the border.

Unless there is something special or different in this case, i.e he would stand to lose the land in a Yes vote, I don't think he needed to declare it.

Maybe you expect less standards from journalism than I do. Maybe the standards of journalism are such that our expectations are lower.

I'm not talking about anybody advocating a side in the vote. I'm talking about the editor of a national newspaper who doesn't have a vote, has a significant personal interest, fails to mention it.

I doubt if you'll find much information (on Google)on many estates in Scotland unless they've turned them into Safari parks, visitor centres or shooting galleries for the rich.

However, it's a well known fact in Forfar that Bensh (as us locals call it) is the secret hideaway of Elvis Presley and James Dean. It's been rumoured that Hitler holidays there but it's probably John Lennon playing jokes with a silly moustache. You won't find that on google either

{some of the information in this post may contain inaccuracies}

Originally Posted by LondonRoad

Maybe you expect less standards from journalism than I do. Maybe the standards of journalism are such that our expectations are lower.

If you have higher expectations then you should be a good deal more questioning about Murray's assertions in a blog post rather than assuming it to be true and asking why it wasn't declared.

I'm not talking about anybody advocating a side in the vote. I'm talking about the editor of a national newspaper who doesn't have a vote, has a significant personal interest, fails to mention it.

We don't know if it's significant personal interest. We don't know how the vote influences it because he have no idea that 'it' is or what policies could impact upon 'it'.

All we know, and I had to research this much since Murray wasn't kind enough too, is that the guy mentioned is a Scottish Politician who was made a life peer and given the title: "Baron Mackie of Benshie". Somewhere along the line he must have been given an estate with the same name for reasons unknown, or renamed an existing estate he had with the title.

Unless Murray saw the name and presumed that Benshie was a place and since he was a 'Baron' it must be a large amount of land and that he owned it.

Still. I don't think the prospect of an editor's wife possibility being bequeathed property in the future is of sufficient importance to warrant a discloser from that editor when writing about an issue which could somehow affect it. After all the amount of issues could impact upon that property is massive.

[bubblegun]

Originally Posted by Qtx

One thing that worries me if the yes voters lose by a small amount, will they feel robbed and forever feel bitter towards being part of the UK? Could it give birth to like a scottish IRA?

No.

There have been idiots who tried to do this but their neighbours informed on them and they got arrested and sent to prison.

I can't give links right now but I do remember reading about these plonkers previously.
SNLA or something similar.

[Pierre]

Back to the bullying again

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-29186106

[Russ]

Bullying? Or the usual childish propaganda tactics expected around election time?

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by Russ

Bullying? Or the usual childish propaganda tactics expected around election time?

I don't think this is usual, nor is it a normal election. We've seen the Westminster propaganda machine working at full force this week. I haven't seen anything like this since the days when we were being fed BS regarding Iraq.

[Russ]

No it isn't an election but in a referendum (especially one with serious implications as this) there will be similarities in terms of mud-slinging and BS tactics. Alex vs Nick Robinson the other day is a good example. This close to polling day is usually 'squeaky bum time' and that's when we get the scare stories.

[LondonRoad]

Originally Posted by Russ

No it isn't an election but in a referendum (especially one with serious implications as this) there will be similarities in terms of mud-slinging and BS tactics. Alex vs Nick Robinson the other day is a good example. This close to polling day is usually 'squeaky bum time' and that's when we get the scare stories.

It's not just the scare stories. That has always been there. It's the misinformation, the selective information and the underhand mud slinging that have reached a level that has gone beyond a normal election campaign.