Russia has invaded Ukraine

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

Indiscriminate cruise missile strikes on civilian population centres are a sign of impotence and a lack of strategy. The range and targeting ability of a cruise missile is paid for in reduced explosive yield. Used this way, they are terror weapons with no more military value than the V-1 and V-2 missiles launched at London by Germany towards the end of WW2 - and they will have no more effect on Ukraine’s military effectiveness than Hitler’s super-weapons had on ours. The only militarily effective use of a cruise missile is in taking out high-value targets that stand in the way of an immediate military objective.

Also … they’re expensive, n limited supply and given the sanctions imposed on Russian industry, quite possibly irreplaceable. It’s ultimately self-defeating because when they really need them, they won’t have them, and in the meantime they are only stiffening Ukrainian resolve to resist.

Yes, Ukraine continues to execute its logical plan. Russia denies the Moskva was hit by Ukraine but then panics by firing missiles all across Ukraine. More a display of weakness than strength.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Does anybody think that now's the time for NATO or a NATO country to enter Ukraine upon Zelensky's invitation, then immediately imposing a no-fly zone on the non-Russian occupied areas?

This move would call Putin's bluff; so long as Putin can maintain the bluff, Ukraine will be systematically destroyed. Can we really stand by and watch?

As for Germany, not enough noise is being made in the West about that; Zelensky would think all Europe wants is for this to go away.

Whilst I agree with those who say that this would be a bad move, this current state of affairs cannot carry on indefinitely.

I don't know the answer, but I fear that Putin will eventually lose patience as he's clearly not retreated, despite all the setbacks.

I can see this carrying on in much the same way as it has been until the winter and then something drastic being done by either side.

Is there any chance that Russia will actually run out of weapons? Who is willing to sell to them? I don't think that lack of money due to the sanctions will be an issue whilst they are receiving revenue from the West for gas etc.

Putin would happily let Russian people starve and use this money for weapons if anyone is willing to sell them to him.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Whilst I agree with those who say that this would be a bad move, this current state of affairs cannot carry on indefinitely.

I don't know the answer, but I fear that Putin will eventually lose patience as he's clearly not retreated, despite all the setbacks.

I can see this carrying on in much the same way as it has been until the winter and then something drastic being done by either side.

Is there any chance that Russia will actually run out of weapons? Who is willing to sell to them? I don't think that lack of money due to the sanctions will be an issue whilst they are receiving revenue from the West for gas etc.

Putin would happily let Russian people starve and use this money for weapons if anyone is willing to sell them to him.

Russian tank production has already ceased due to the sanctions and the shortage of parts. Cruise missle stocks are getting low and there doesn't seem to be significant production of replacements possilby due to the sanctions as well.

Putin wants the "Special Operation" to be over by 9th May, they withdrew in the north as Kviv was unattainable. But Putin wants something to sell to the Russians as a success hence the concentration on the Donbas and east Ukraine. If he could get a positive result there by the date then he could appear to offer a true (if not acceptable) peace deal and declare a victory without losing face.

The Ukrainans have a different outlook, they have embarked on 2 offensives to cut logistic supply lines to 22 TBG's to just one road from at least 3. That is not enough to be able to supply those TBG's as an effective fighting force, they also claim to have destroyed one TBG by two thirds yesterday.

Ukraine has every chance of winning this war, All it takes is NATO suppyling the weapons they need. If that includes tanks and aircraft then so be it. Give them what they need.

Originally Posted by pip08456

Russian tank production has already ceased due to the sanctions and the shortage of parts. Cruise missle stocks are getting low and there doesn't seem to be significant production of replacements possilby due to the sanctions as well.

Putin wants the "Special Operation" to be over by 9th May, they withdrew in the north as Kviv was unattainable. But Putin wants something to sell to the Russians as a success hence the concentration on the Donbas and east Ukraine. If he could get a positive result there by the date then he could appear to offer a true (if not acceptable) peace deal and declare a victory without losing face.

The Ukrainans have a different outlook, they have embarked on 2 offensives to cut logistic supply lines to 22 TBG's to just one road from at least 3. That is not enough to be able to supply those TBG's as an effective fighting force, they also claim to have destroyed one TBG by two thirds yesterday.

Ukraine has every chance of winning this war, All it takes is NATO suppyling the weapons they need. If that includes tanks and aircraft then so be it. Give them what they need.

BTG (Battalion Tactical Group)

I’m pretty sure Ukraine is getting what it needs - at least as much as has been publicly promised, and faster than most people realise.

It’s also important not to get overawed by the breathless reporting coming out of eastern Ukraine this evening about the Russian offensive having begun. As you say, the Russian army is operating to a purely political objective at present (the artificial 9 May deadline) rather than a realistic, achievable military one. It just doesn’t have the manpower, the equipment or the supplies to sustain what it is attempting. Plus Ukraine is busily denying it access to what it does have by choking its supply lines, just as it did around Kyiv.

This will be no cake walk for the Ukrainian forces but Russia didn’t get things all its own way when it started this, and it’s starting this next phase in a far worse state than before.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Chris

BTG (Battalion Tactical Group)

I’m pretty sure Ukraine is getting what it needs - at least as much as has been publicly promised, and faster than most people realise.

It’s also important not to get overawed by the breathless reporting coming out of eastern Ukraine this evening about the Russian offensive having begun. As you say, the Russian army is operating to a purely political objective at present (the artificial 9 May deadline) rather than a realistic, achievable military one. It just doesn’t have the manpower, the equipment or the supplies to sustain what it is attempting. Plus Ukraine is busily denying it access to what it does have by choking its supply lines, just as it did around Kyiv.

This will be no cake walk for the Ukrainian forces but Russia didn’t get things all its own way when it started this, and it’s starting this next phase in a far worse state than before.

I agree entirely with you Chris, It is now reported that 75-79 BTG's are involved in the Russian offensive in the Donbas region yet no weight is being given to the Ukrainian attacks on supply lines. There is no way that number of BTG'S can be supported if their supply line (logistical support) is cut by 66%. That is what the Ukrianians are trying to do, the final supply line will then be subject to possible drone attacks and rendered non-viable. Remains to be seen.

Don't forget Ukraine has been fighting a war in the Donbas area since 2014 without assistance (arms etc) from NATO, now that they have that assistance it may turn out differently. The next couple of days will tell.

[pip08456]

More good news for Ukraine.

BORIS Johnson will hand Stormer armoured missile launchers to Ukraine to unleash hell on Mad Vlad Putin’s army.

Their 17 Starstreak missiles can blitz low-flying jets and helicopters.

Experts hailed them “the best kit” yet sent by any Western power.

Sources say the MoD showed off the Stormers’ punch to Ukrainians at a display on Salisbury Plain two weeks ago.

The 13-ton, high-tech launchers can be loaded on to C-17 transport planes and flown to the war in days.

They only need a crew of three — a driver, commander and gunner.

And they will allow President Volodymyr Zelensky’s army to speed into positions at 50mph, fire, then get away fast.

https://inews.co.uk/news/stormer-arm...nchers-1582134

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:11 ----------

More good news for Ukraine., about time NATO supplied more.

Netherlands to send heavy weapons, including armored vehicles, to Ukraine.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said on April 19 that he had called Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and announced the arms supplies “as Russia begins a renewed offensive.”

Kyiv Independent.

[1andrew1]

Continuing the good-news-on-weapons theme. More operational Ukranian aircraft than there were two weeks ago. How large the "parts" that Ukraine received, remain to be seen.

West sends Ukraine fighter jets, heavy weapons as fighting intensifies after Russia shifts focus to Donbas

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...s-weapons-war/

Officially
Ukraine did not receive new aircraft from partners!
With the assistance of the US Government, Ukranian Air Force received spare parts and components for the restoration and repair of the fleet of aircraft in the Armed Forces, which will allow to put into service more equipment.

https://twitter.com/KpsZSU/status/1516686129642233859

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Continuing the good-news-on-weapons theme. More operational Ukranian aircraft than there were two weeks ago. How large the "parts" that Ukraine received, remain to be seen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...s-weapons-war/


https://twitter.com/KpsZSU/status/1516686129642233859

It all depends on whether you need a replacement canopy to attach to a MiG, or a replacement MiG to attach to your spare canopy…

I was reading last night that weapons supply to Ukraine is still way short of the level of assistance the USSR rendered to North Vietnam. Apparently, sometimes training the Vietnamese how to fire missiles at American aircraft involved Soviet personnel actually firing the missiles.

BREAKING: Ukraine confirms receiving spare parts, components of aircraft from allies, but not new planes.

Despite Pentagon’s earlier claim that Ukraine received new planes as well as spare parts, Ukraine’s Armed Forces said that the country “did not receive new aircraft from partners.” - Kyiv Independent

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mick

BREAKING: Ukraine confirms receiving spare parts, components of aircraft from allies, but not new planes.

Despite Pentagon’s earlier claim that Ukraine received new planes as well as spare parts, Ukraine’s Armed Forces said that the country “did not receive new aircraft from partners.” - Kyiv Independent

Could that include slightly used ?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Could that include slightly used ?

It's a spanking deal guv, only got 72,466 miles on the clock, new tyres a month ago, panoramic sunroof, satnav & cruise control, a bit thirsty on fuel but hey, a chap like yourself doesn't want to be in the slow lane eh know what I mean eh

BREAKING: Biden announces additional $800 million military aid to Ukraine.

The U.S. president said on April 21 that it sent a message to Putin: "He will never succeed in dominating and occupying all of Ukraine."

Biden also announced a ban for Russian ships to enter U.S. ports. - Kyiv Independent

[Carth]

Red button time getting closer . .