General : Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2016) Vol 2

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jj20x

...You raise a point about services testing in certain areas. I thought that NGTV was supposed to bring a uniform delivery across the network. I don't see why different versions of the national transport streams (1-45) would be made available in different regions. All of these "tests" are on those transport streams.

I thought this too and assumed that eg all the BBC1, ITV regions would be carried everywhere and only appear on the EPG in the relevant areas.

However, I was told that, like the local TV channels they are only inserted into the headend in the appropriate places

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I thought this too and assumed that eg all the BBC1, ITV regions would be carried everywhere and only appear on the EPG in the relevant areas.

However, I was told that, like the local TV channels they are only inserted into the headend in the appropriate places

I was referring to the national channels on TSids 1 to 45. As you say, regional variations and local channels are inserted onto regional transport streams at the regional headend. TSid 101 carries BBC regions and local TV stations served by the regional headend plus RTE in Northern Ireland. TSid 102 carries ITV / Ch4 (regional advertising) variations served by the regional headend plus, I think, TG4 in Northern Ireland. TSid 104 carries regional BBC One / ITV HD variations. Obviously, the channels carried on these transport streams will be different at each regional headend. There's no obvious reason for regional headends to vary the content of the transport streams (1-45) carrying only national channels.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by jj20x

True, but I don't think he was really concerned about possible launches, more about what additional FTA services cable has. SDR enthusiasts are generally more interested in unusual services they can use than rather than basic tv services they can't use. He did point out that a local tv channel was "present" and encrypted. It isn't available on Tivo, so presumably this is only made available at specific local hubs and not to all properties served by the regional headend. Perhaps a little over-restrictive for a channel available to everyone over the internet.

There's no such thing as FTA - Free to air on cable. As said, its a closed system which is why we don't get all the Freeview channels as separate deals have to be done for them to appear on cable. You used to be able to plug a tv straight into the cable socket and get some channels without a box as they were FTA, but as far as I know now all channels are encrypted, Local channels differ from area to area.

Originally Posted by jj20x

Indeed, locally Tivo claims there are 52 transport streams. Ok, there's 45 transport streams carrying national channels (TSids 1-45) and 3 carrying regional services (TSids 101, 102 & 104), 4 used to deliver VOD and a further 4 carrying frequency tests. That's 56 in total, presumably Tivo ignores the frequency tests.

I'd be interested to see confirmation of what is actually testing with actual video/audio streams present in the transport streams in mediaboy's area. If the "tests" are just service descriptions picked up by scanning for cable channels on a basic tv with a cable tuner, they aren't necessarily real tests. I would say that a service description not linked to an actual service doesn't qualify as a test, although it could still be an indication of a service "coming soon".

You raise a point about services testing in certain areas. I thought that NGTV was supposed to bring a uniform delivery across the network. I don't see why different versions of the national transport streams (1-45) would be made available in different regions. All of these "tests" are on those transport streams.

Last time I checked, there was still only 48 transport streams in my area. But with the broadband upgrades, VM are no doubt increasing this especially if you are seeing 52. 8-12 streams/channels will be used for downstream broadband and 2-4 for upstream. As you say, the others are VOD services and the rest are tv.

There are different versions of some channels especially the main BBC/ITV ones for local news and regional versions too.

The service information table SI, is just that, a table, a list. All those hidden channels are not tv channels but red button services, links to vod services, pvr & information for the stbs etc.

The only people who can see genuine channel tests now are VM staff with modified stbs that unblock the signals.

Originally Posted by Horizon

There's no such thing as FTA - Free to air on cable..

If you had checked the digitalbitrate link I posted earlier you would be aware that your statement is nonsense, not all channels are encrypted. I won't go into what is and isn't encrypted, it's beyond the scope of what I was trying to discuss.

Last time I checked, there was still only 48 transport streams in my area. But with the broadband upgrades, VM are no doubt increasing this especially if you are seeing 52. 8-12 streams/channels will be used for downstream broadband and 2-4 for upstream. As you say, the others are VOD services and the rest are tv.

Again, the link I posted shows that there are the number of transport streams I indicated previously. Feel free to confirm that for yourself.

The TS count doesn't include DOCSIS streams.

The service information table SI, is just that, a table, a list. All those hidden channels are not tv channels but red button services, information for the stbs etc.

Right, and that is what TVs (with a cable tuner) load so probably why mediaboy is being told of "tests" which aren't actually active.

The red button and stb support streams are clearly labelled. I don't really think that anyone would mistake DL_Cisco8685_10072 or PVR_EPG for Fox News.

The only people who can see genuine channel tests now are VM staff with modified stbs that unblock the signals.

Nevertheless, if the tests were actually happening, there would be encrypted video / audio streams related to them in the actual transport streams. Again, feel free to examine the actual streams present on TSids 10, 20 and 44, where these tests are supposed to be taking place. There is nothing there, nothing for the customer to see, nothing for staff to see either. Not even VM staff can watch streams that simply don't exist. Check the link, check the streams, you won't find these tests.. the channels only exist in the SDT.

Sure, there may be different versions of the transport streams available to staff at, say, the central headend. If there is, that still wouldn't mean that these channels are testing across the whole VM network. They aren't.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Horizon

Plus, it wouldn't tell you whether a channel was going to launch or not anyway as cable is a closed off system, unlike satellite.

Satellite capacity costs money, so if someone wants to launch a channel on satellite they either have to do a deal with Sky, or with the satellite operator Astra. So when a test appears, knowing that this costs money to lease capacity, it is likely something will happen and a channel will launch.

But VM's cable system is their own. They could privately have every satellite channel on the cable system "testing", that wouldn't make any difference to cost as they're not renting capacity from anyone, its their's already.

The costs to VM come when they increase capacity and that last happened in 2010 when the amount of streams increased from around 36 to 48. Mediaboy has said new streams are testing in his area, but I have not seen them in my area yet.

Many of the tests are done when these new streams are created to check that they are working properly so that when and if VM want to launch new services, they can do so immediately, ie like when BT Sports channels launched. They just appeared.

When VM want to launch something, they will, and I doubt there will be many tests or anything to warn us about this before hand.

Analogue cable was more fun!

Interesting. So when we are told by our crystal ball gazers that x channels are testing, this does not indicate that these channels are launching, or may launch, at all!

So there is absolutely no point in these posts, they are just misleading. If we get any more 'channels testing' messages on the 'Coming Soon' thread, we can safely ignore them as totally meaningless!

It's just like April Fools Day all over again!!

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by jj20x

If you had checked the digitalbitrate link I posted earlier you would be aware that your statement is nonsense, not all channels are encrypted. I won't go into what is and isn't encrypted, it's beyond the scope of what I was trying to discuss.



Again, the link I posted shows that there are the number of transport streams I indicated previously. Feel free to confirm that for yourself.

The TS count doesn't include DOCSIS streams.



Right, and that is what TVs (with a cable tuner) load so probably why mediaboy is being told of "tests" which aren't actually active.

The red button and stb support streams are clearly labelled. I don't really think that anyone would mistake DL_Cisco8685_10072 or PVR_EPG for Fox News.



Nevertheless, if the tests were actually happening, there would be encrypted video / audio streams related to them in the actual transport streams. Again, feel free to examine the actual streams present on TSids 10, 20 and 44, where these tests are supposed to be taking place. There is nothing there, nothing for the customer to see, nothing for staff to see either. Not even VM staff can watch streams that simply don't exist. Check the link, check the streams, you won't find these tests.. the channels only exist in the SDT.

Sure, there may be different versions of the transport streams available to staff at, say, the central headend. If there is, that still wouldn't mean that these channels are testing across the whole VM network. They aren't.

I currently don't have a dvb-c pc card, so I cannot check whether all channels are encrypted or not. Or, whether tests are happening or not, so I cannot check whether the information from that foreign based site is accurate.

If anyone has a dvb-c card, perhaps they can have a look. Even a tv with a built in cable tuner, samsung does them, would tell if some channels are FTA.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Interesting. So when we are told by our crystal ball gazers that x channels are testing, this does not indicate that these channels are launching, or may launch, at all!

So there is absolutely no point in these posts, they are just misleading. If we get any more 'channels testing' messages on the 'Coming Soon' thread, we can safely ignore them as totally meaningless!

It's just like April Fools Day all over again!!

As I just said above, I don't have the equipment to check myself so cannot argue with 100% certainty one way or the other. But my position remains the same, unless proven otherwise.

If anyone wishes to buy me a dvb-c card as an early Christmas present, I will check!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Interesting. So when we are told by our crystal ball gazers that x channels are testing, this does not indicate that these channels are launching, or may launch, at all!

So there is absolutely no point in these posts, they are just misleading. If we get any more 'channels testing' messages on the 'Coming Soon' thread, we can safely ignore them as totally meaningless!

It's just like April Fools Day all over again!!

I guess it means that there may be a chance that they will launch and presumably they have a higher chance of launching than channels that are not known to be testing. It infers some form of relationship with VM even if a carriage contract has not been signed.
In other news - additional Worldbox channels have arrived. Antena 3 and Atreseries have been added to VN's Spanish Viva. http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2016/...ers-uk-market/

[RichardCoulter]

A relatively recent thread discussing the VM FTA channels:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/11...vm-page-2.html

Is the Fox News that is broadcasting off the EPG the SD or HD version?

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Interesting. So when we are told by our crystal ball gazers that x channels are testing, this does not indicate that these channels are launching, or may launch, at all!

So there is absolutely no point in these posts, they are just misleading.

Personally I see nothing wrong with these posts. They are people passing on rumors of possible channels that may appear. What is wrong with that? They are not stated as a fact.

If they irritate you so much, as appears to be the case, why not just skip these posts and move on to the next one?

[denphone]

Indeed it would be nice if some would get off their high horses now and again.

Originally Posted by Horizon

I currently don't have a dvb-c pc card, so I cannot check whether all channels are encrypted or not. Or, whether tests are happening or not, so I cannot check whether the information from that foreign based site is accurate.

If anyone has a dvb-c card, perhaps they can have a look. Even a tv with a built in cable tuner, samsung does them, would tell if some channels are FTA

I'm guessing then that you have failed to understand the point of the last several posts you have replied to. The SDR hobbyist running the tests, used an SDR tuner with a DVD-C driver. Basically the same as a DVB-C PC card but far more stable across the entire frequency range and heavily shielded, so less likely to inject noise into the cable network than a basic DVB-C PC card.

Your point about the digitalbitrate site possibly being inaccurate because it is foreign is just plain silly, it has DVB / DAB scans from all over Europe, it has to be based somewhere. The scans are clearly made in Liverpool. I referred you to that site as the independent scans made by the SDR hobbyist confirmed the details on the site. Each transport stream was run through a TS Analyser and I have seen csv files detailing the content of each transport stream.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:40 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

If we get any more 'channels testing' messages on the 'Coming Soon' thread, we can safely ignore them as totally meaningless!

It's just like April Fools Day all over again!!

LOL, "there's no smoke without fire". If a new channel name shows up it's always going to be an indication that it could be "coming soon".

The purpose of checking the actual transport streams was to reconcile the difference between claims on here of channels testing and the absence of these channels on the digitalbitrate transport stream scans. The conclusion was that the channel description and EPG data has been added to the SI tables but the services aren't present on the transport streams. "Testing" tends to suggest that the video and audio streams are up and running, waiting to be added to the EPG, that's not the case for all of the channels. The BBC Olympic channels are, largely, up and running and ready to be added to the EPG. The other "tests".. not at such an advanced stage.

It does make me wonder why VM use actual channel names at such an early stage, it would be better, for them, to use a vague service name until the service is ready to be added to the EPG.

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:47 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Is the Fox News that is broadcasting off the EPG the SD or HD version?

Hard to tell in the absence of a video stream...

---------- Post added at 14:00 ---------- Previous post was at 13:49 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

In other news - additional Worldbox channels have arrived. Antena 3 and Atreseries have been added to VN's Spanish Viva. http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2016/...ers-uk-market/

Also news here http://www.tvbeurope.com/atresmedia-coming-to-the-uk/

If VM are actually "looking to invest in foreign-language offerings" they don't seem to be giving it much publicity!

[theone2k10]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Interesting. So when we are told by our crystal ball gazers that x channels are testing, this does not indicate that these channels are launching, or may launch, at all!

So there is absolutely no point in these posts, they are just misleading. If we get any more 'channels testing' messages on the 'Coming Soon' thread, we can safely ignore them as totally meaningless!

It's just like April Fools Day all over again!!

A bit like your constant predictions of linear tv dying then?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jj20x

Also news here http://www.tvbeurope.com/atresmedia-coming-to-the-uk/

If VM are actually "looking to invest in foreign-language offerings" they don't seem to be giving it much publicity!

Probably just a soft launch now as it's summer and VM will publicise Worldbox properly later on in the year.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Probably just a soft launch now as it's summer and VM will publicise Worldbox properly later on in the year.

Probably but as the new Worldbox channels appear to be subscription based, I would have thought that some publicity to bring in new subscribers would be in order.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jj20x

Probably but as the new Worldbox channels appear to be subscription based, I would have thought that some publicity to bring in new subscribers would be in order.

I'm not sure what the minimum level of subscription is for Worldbox, as I receive it as part of XL.

Is it available as a stand alone service?

I didn't realise that Fox News was just a label at this stage and did not have video/audio streams.