*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[patchwork]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

I'll remind you and everyone else who shares your view what the ONLY reason a company like ntl is in business for. The ONLY reason, is to make a profit. Users who want to max out their connections consititute the minority, but they cost the company money. In other words, there is no profit in having you on the service.

I've never seen any proof of that!! How do you know how much money they make on customers?

I rent some web servers, I can get a server for £40 per month, included in the price is 1200GB of bandwidth per month, that works out at roughly 3p per gig. (I'm sure NTL will pay a lot less, probably closer to 1p per gig)

You "claim" a customer using 10GB per day causes NTL to loose money. 10GB * 3p per gig = 30p per day, or £9 per month in bandwidth charges. (probably closer to £3 per month)

So that customer costs £9 per month plus the cost to send a bill, plus electric cost, plus equipment hire costs etc...

Apart from a slight fluctuations in bandwidth charges all customers cost the same, same electric cost etc.. apart from people that call customer service a lot, these customers cost the company the most.


Pete

Originally Posted by patchwork

I rent some web servers, I can get a server for £40 per month, included in the price is 1200GB of bandwidth per month, that works out at roughly 3p per gig. (I'm sure NTL will pay a lot less, probably closer to 1p per gig)

and what country are these in ?

Originally Posted by patchwork

I've never seen any proof of that!! How do you know how much money they make on customers?

I rent some web servers, I can get a server for £40 per month, included in the price is 1200GB of bandwidth per month, that works out at roughly 3p per gig. (I'm sure NTL will pay a lot less, probably closer to 1p per gig)

You "claim" a customer using 10GB per day causes NTL to loose money. 10GB * 3p per gig = 30p per day, or £9 per month in bandwidth charges. (probably closer to £3 per month)

So that customer costs £9 per month plus the cost to send a bill, plus electric cost, plus equipment hire costs etc...

Apart from a slight fluctuations in bandwidth charges all customers cost the same, same electric cost etc.. apart from people that call customer service a lot, these customers cost the company the most.


Pete

Souns a bit simplistic to me. This may be even more simplistic, but if NTL operate on a nominal 20:1 contention ratio, and everyone on a 2MB connection were to 'max out' their connections, wouldn't the theoretical speed drop to 100K for everyone? Should NTL then invest in upgrading the network to provide a 1:1 contention at 20 x the price?

Ive read a lot about how heavy users impact others i dont understand how,i download when i want i what i want nothing huge but enough,i know we are on a 50 to 1 contention and i know browsing sometimes slows on a saturday or sunday but what about overnight ?? excuse me if this has already been answered but i cant read back so far lol lol

[obvious]

FWIW (as discussed above) external transit bandwidth costs ntl around 10p/GB. This figure is falling rapidly. I wouldn't be surprised to see this below 1p/GB in the next five years.

What would really please those against capping would be if there were an evolutionary change in the capacity of ntl's 'last mile' network. Then any argument for capping would disappear.

I'd argue that this will happen eventually but judging the timescale is another matter.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by patchwork

I've never seen any proof of that!! How do you know how much money they make on customers?

I rent some web servers, I can get a server for £40 per month, included in the price is 1200GB of bandwidth per month, that works out at roughly 3p per gig. (I'm sure NTL will pay a lot less, probably closer to 1p per gig)

You "claim" a customer using 10GB per day causes NTL to loose money. 10GB * 3p per gig = 30p per day, or £9 per month in bandwidth charges. (probably closer to £3 per month)

So that customer costs £9 per month plus the cost to send a bill, plus electric cost, plus equipment hire costs etc...

Apart from a slight fluctuations in bandwidth charges all customers cost the same, same electric cost etc.. apart from people that call customer service a lot, these customers cost the company the most.


Pete

You seem to have it all worked out.

If you look at ADSL companies that charge for bandwidth over their cap it tends to be £1.50 to £2.50 per Gb.

If you look at Plusnet http://www.plus.net/support/faq/broa...sage_faq.shtml you will see

Very few ISPs offer an uncontended (1:1 contention) and therefore unlimited product. Where these products are available, they are priced in excess of £300 a month. This reflects the costs associated with a customer utilising a high level of data transfer.

Common sense dictates that no ISP can sustain having customers whose usage is in the hundreds of Gb per month as the cost of having them is several times the subscription they pay.

What would you say to NTL removing all usage restrictions and uncapping the speed that their cable modems are running at? What do you think would happen?

What do you think using the new 1Mb, 2Mb and 3Mb tiers would happen if every NTL customer went on line at exactly the same time and they all wanted to download a 100Mb file?

[vbrindle]

Originally Posted by Doofy

To the person who gave me the rep points with the following comments and i quote "Doesn't matter to ntl what the content is. Also the computers does the downloading not the person." wtf planet are some people on,this has got to be a new argument against capping i have heard it all now. It wasnt me it was the comp it did it all by itself without a single piece of user intervention. i mean please. I did say that some people needed to get out more i rest my case.

Well people will use Microsoft Windows and Anti-Virus Software which automatically update very often.

What about Steam??? They send updates nearly every day. What happens if your PC crashes and you lose everything. I wouldn't want to wait over a week to re-download all my steam games (currently 8.51GB if you have the full back catalogue). It probably wouldn't happen to me, but it's bound to happen to someone.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by vbrindle

Well people will use Microsoft Windows and Anti-Virus Software which automatically update very often.

What about Steam??? They send updates nearly every day. What happens if your PC crashes and you lose everything. I wouldn't want to wait over a week to re-download all my steam games (currently 8.51GB if you have the full back catalogue). It probably wouldn't happen to me, but it's bound to happen to someone.

What with all the updates for antivirus, windows or steam there is no way that you could go through the amount of bandwidth that some people use. I am referring to the power users not the occasional user who goes slightly over the cap, but there really are some people who have to downloads gigs and gigs of data day after day. What do people find to download when they are hitting 50 gig+ a week is totally beyond me. And i still maintain that no way is someone who is hitting that kind of usage is totally 100% legit.

[vbrindle]

Why impose a 1Gb a day limit when sometimes people may want to download more than that? They should make it a monthly cap (if they have to cap) as I don't download 1Gb every day, but some days I might download more.

I think the caps for being on 3Mb should be double those for being on 2Mb, if not more.

Can someone explain to me this:

What's the benefit of being on 3Mb over 2Mb???? 1Mb extra to download and 100k extra upload, for the same daily cap.

May as well save £13 a month.

I wonder how many other people will consider dropping from 3Mb to 2Mb, they're still 512k better off than they were and £13 a month better off.

[jtwn]

Or you may aswell figure out the reasoning for them both being the same, something that has been repeated here over and over.

[snipetrif]

im confused, im an avid gamer, it says i get 6 hours of gaming a day, and i do more than that a day, wats going to happen?

[Rone]

Originally Posted by snipetrif

im confused, im an avid gamer, it says i get 6 hours of gaming a day, and i do more than that a day, wats going to happen?

The general concensus of opinion [not mine, i may add] is you go elsewhere.

[snipetrif]

Admin Edit (Paul) - comment removed - don't try bypassing the swear filter please. is there any other isp's out there without caps at bb speed? and at this price i mean

You game for more than 6 hours a day!! wish I had that much time to myself...

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

You game for more than 6 hours a day!! wish I had that much time to myself...

They can't game for much more than 6 hours a day because they have to watch the two or three movies they have downloaded, listen to the 100 mp3's, install and play the two large game demo's and try out the half dozen linux ISO's. I am sure I've forgotton something. Oh yes, watching those HD TV streams and listening to all that streamed radio>