52nd State - Page 9

downquark1 · 13-11-2003, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by basa

OK .. questions to all who think Bush / Blair were wrong in attacking Afghanistan and Iraq.

What would you do or have done to prevent (further) terrorist attacks on the West ??

How would you proceed to stabilise those countries ??

I was for Aufghanistan - has Iraq ever made a terriorist attack on american soil?

**Chris** · 13-11-2003, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

I think it's astonishing to think that the US is still so pig-headed that they appeared to think that they could just stroll in there, kick over Saddam's regime and then expect everyone to go "Hooray, let's have a Western Democracy!"

There are so many examples from recent history that demonstrate that this sort of thing just *doesn't* happen and *doesn't* work, yet still the US is guilty of over-weaning arrogance that military might solves everything.

The fact is that they, and we, went into Iraq with no clear "exit strategy". The US thought they could do it all themselves, they didn't need the UN, they didn't need to worry about what would happen next because once they'd got rid of Saddam everything would be hugs and puppies.

Of course anyone who bothered to *think* about the situation would realise how wrong this conclusion is and the response would be "thanks for getting rid of Saddam, now get out of here and let us run our own country", but it seems that that sort of thought was not part of Dubya and friends' plan.

Again, you have a good point, but to press the question, what do you think will happen if the Coalition leaves Iraq now?

13-11-2003, 13:20

A quick message to everyone in this thread:

In a little while I'm probably going to be leaving for London to go to the Erotica Show, so I'm going to be out of computer range for the next few days (aaargh! Withdrawl symptoms!!)

So please don't think I'm not willing to reply to you, it's just that I'm not able to!

**Chris** · 13-11-2003, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

A quick message to everyone in this thread:

In a little while I'm probably going to be leaving for London to go to the Erotica Show, so I'm going to be out of computer range for the next few days (aaargh! Withdrawl symptoms!!)

So please don't think I'm not willing to reply to you, it's just that I'm not able to!

One way or another, everyone will agree that the forum will not be quite the same without you

Ramrod · 13-11-2003, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

You mean like the heroic person who anonymously send me a reputation message answering the entirity of one of my longer messages in this thread with the single word "idiot"??

(NB, to whoever sent that, if you don't have the courage of your convictions to put your name to it, then I have nothing but contempt for you.)

.!

Well it wasn't me!

13-11-2003, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by basa

What would you do or have done to prevent (further) terrorist attacks on the West ??

The important question is not how to prevent further attacks, but why are we being subjected to those attacks in the first instance. The answer is simple, the arrogance of the Western world in attempting to impose its ideals on other countries. If we didn`t go stomping around, poking our nose in where it isn`t wanted then there is a good chance that these attacks wouldn`t happen in the first instance.

Ramrod · 13-11-2003, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

A quick message to everyone in this thread:

In a little while I'm probably going to be leaving for London to go to the Erotica Show, so I'm going to be out of computer range for the next few days (aaargh! Withdrawl symptoms!!)

So please don't think I'm not willing to reply to you, it's just that I'm not able to!

Have fun!

basa · 13-11-2003, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by downquark1

I was for Aufghanistan...

By that do you mean you supported the Taliban regime ??

Quote:

Originally Posted by downquark1

- has Iraq ever made a terriorist attack on american soil?

Who knows under what banner terrorists act ? I didn't specify only USA, there have been many terrorists attacks against the West and its allies. Afghanistan as a country didn't attack the West, but it is widely believed terrorists are (were) afforded safe haven there and in Iraq.

Ramrod · 13-11-2003, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd

The important question is not how to prevent further attacks, but why are we being subjected to those attacks in the first instance. The answer is simple, the arrogance of the Western world in attempting to impose its ideals on other countries. If we didn`t go stomping around, poking our nose in where it isn`t wanted then there is a good chance that these attacks wouldn`t happen in the first instance.

Is that apologism(?sp) for suicide bombers?!

basa · 13-11-2003, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Well it wasn't me!

Nor me !!!

Ramrod · 13-11-2003, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Irrelevant. You said "Cristianity dosn't advocate destroying a complete class system to further it's own ends." so I gave an example of them wishing to destroy a complete "class" of people who didn't fit in with their mindset.

I am not playing the "numbers" game that "A killed X million, but B only killed Y million, so A is worse than B". The point is that the deaths *resulted* from someone's idea of how to implement a philosophy/ religion/ whatever.

Well to an extent I am playing the numbers game....
As far as I remember (read a book on it once) the inquisition wasn't waged against classes of people, it targeted individuals.

Xaccers · 13-11-2003, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd

The important question is not how to prevent further attacks, but why are we being subjected to those attacks in the first instance. The answer is simple <snip>

...people like Osama Bin Laden taking the holy words of the Quaran and twisting them to his own warped views.
He wants all non-muslims out of Saudi Arabia, and is willing to kill anyone to reach that goal.
If the US had nothing more than workers in Saudi they would still be targets.

To you and me an attack must have a valid reason behind it, so we find things like america etc poking its nose in to other countries because the real reason is too illogical to accept.

downquark1 · 13-11-2003, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by basa

By that do you mean you supported the Taliban regime ??

Who knows under what banner terrorists act ? I didn't specify only USA, there have been many terrorists attacks against the West and its allies. Afghanistan as a country didn't attack the West, but it is widely believed terrorists are (were) afforded safe haven there and in Iraq.

Yes but were any involved with Alqueda, as a comic pointed out the only connection is the letter Q

It has been admitted that the invasion of iraq was a pre-emptive attack, something that is spurias at best, we could attack France and in defense say they were going to attack us first for all we knew about Iraq.

Ramrod · 13-11-2003, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by downquark1

Where in Marx theory does he set out to kill people?

Right, I did research that one.
Taken from the communist manifesto:

Quote:

In depicting the most general phases of the development of the proletariat, we traced the more or less veiled civil war, raging within existing society, up to the point where that war breaks out into open revolution, and where the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie lays the foundation for the sway of the proletariat.

**Chris** · 13-11-2003, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Right, I did research that one.
Taken from the communist manifesto:

Game, set and match to the anti-commies, I think.