All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread - Page 9

danielf · 15-11-2011, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

For example, I have no religion, I don't follow a religion and I'm not part of a religion yet I am very sure about what I believe in, which option do I choose?

As it is, it would have to be 'none of the above' had it been a choice.

Huh. I thought you were a Pentecostal Christian? Have I missed something?

Russ · 15-11-2011, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

Huh. I thought you were a Pentecostal Christian? Have I missed something?

I am and no you haven't.

Saaf_laandon_mo · 15-11-2011, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I was being tongue in cheek you know.However I'm unable to find a tongue in cheek smiley.

I gathered - I was just expressing that I dont see why do a lot of people of religion/no religion see fit to redicule each others beliefs. Does anyone here really care if someone else is religious or not. I mean does it really matter? Unless people are looking to impose their views on others then what you are, how you bring up your kids, how you live your live is surely up to you - and in this day and age I'm suprised you cant do so without redicule or having to proof god exists/doesnt exist.

My take on religion is simple - if when i die I find there is no live after death, no God, no Allah, no prophet Muhammed waiting for me in heaven, no 70 virgins to deflower, no rivers flowing in wine etc etc etc will it make any difference. No it wont. There certainly wont be anyone around to tell me "I told you so". But my religion suits ME, it suits MYfamily and it suits the way i want to bring up MY kids, and for the here and now, I take comfort and satisfaction from it.

peanut · 15-11-2011, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielf

Huh. I thought you were a Pentecostal Christian? Have I missed something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I am and no you haven't.

This is where I get stuck, I ain't an expert, but if I say as a question, do Pentecostal use a kind of brainwashing techniques, would that be out of line?

I can pretty much gather what the response from those would be, but like everything else, I find it hard to know when you're crossing that (to me) invisible line to when questioning becomes confrontational to them on their part.

Russ · 15-11-2011, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanut

This is where I get stuck, I ain't an expert, but if I say as a question, do Pentecostal use a kind of brainwashing techniques, would that be out of line?

I can pretty much gather what the response from those would be, but like everything else, I find it hard to know when you're crossing that (to me) invisible line to when questioning becomes confrontational to them on their part.

None of the Pentecostal churches or events I have attended have ever had any 'brainwashing' (although I'm pretty sure some will try to stretch its definition to say that they have).

Nobody attends who does not want to be there. Nobody is forced/embarrassed/blackmailed/tricked in to staying. Nobody is threatened to attend. Neither is anyone threatened with "hellfire and brimstone etc" if they do not attend on a sunday, simply because the Bible does not say it is a requirement. An expectation perhaps but nothing more.

**Damien** · 15-11-2011, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

For example, I have no religion, I don't follow a religion and I'm not part of a religion yet I am very sure about what I believe in, which option do I choose?

As it is, it would have to be 'none of the above' had it been a choice.

Depends what you believe in. If you believe in a deity then theist, if not atheist, and if your not sure then agnostic. You could narrow it further by segmenting the agnostic group into their level of conviction such a theist agnostic or atheist agnostic but personally I am not a fan of those classifications.

Russ · 15-11-2011, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Depends what you believe in. If you believe in a deity then theist, if not atheist, and if your not sure then agnostic.

I wouldn't be so sure about that - I know people that believe in a god but are not sure who or what he/she/it is, and consider themselves agnostic.

It's a shame the poll only has 3 options and I'd have loved to have sunk my teeth in to this - it started off quite intelligently (very unusual for this type of subject) and showed promise but with those options the results will be pretty meaningless.

**Damien** · 15-11-2011, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I wouldn't be so sure about that - I know people that believe in a god but are not sure who or what he/she/it is, and consider themselves agnostic.

It's a shame the poll only has 3 options and I'd have loved to have sunk my teeth in to this - it started off quite intelligently (very unusual for this type of subject) and showed promise but with those options the results will be pretty meaningless.

I think it could still be an interesting debate. The three choices are very broad camps but they suffice. Complexities can be address and discussed in comments where we have more words to express them. If we added more options to the poll there would be further sub-categories that are missed out.

Kymmy · 15-11-2011, 21:33

Agnostic is the issue as a choice that won't fit most people who believe themselves to be neither theistic or atheistic.. Given a wider choice I'd expect there to be more people in the middle than the current atheistic vote leader.

..but how far do we go .....

Russ · 15-11-2011, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

I think it could still be an interesting debate. The three choices are very broad camps but they suffice.

I disagree - I don't fit in to any of them. Most of us "religious-types" (not my choice of wording but it's what people of faith seem to be called these days) do not like to be pigeon-holed so specifically.

Mr Angry · 15-11-2011, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I disagree - I don't fit in to any of them. Most of us "religious-types" (not my choice of wording but it's what people of faith seem to be called these days) do not like to be pigeon-holed so specifically.

I take what you are saying Russ (I think) but is your defining yourself as a pentecostal christian not pigeon holing yourself?

Russ · 15-11-2011, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I take what you are saying Russ (I think) but is your defining yourself as a pentecostal christian not pigeon holing yourself?

On the surface maybe but without wanting to come across as patronising, I'm simply 'putting the sweets on the lowest shelf'.

(in any case, the 'pigeon-holing' comment was referring to how the 3 options in the poll are not, funnily enough, encompassing enough for me to take part).

If I was a Catholic then yes I would consider myself religious. I'm no fan of Catholicism (note to the armchair experts: Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing and their Pope does not speak for all Christians) but I'll use it as an example. It is an organised group which has rules, rituals and people can be removed from it. If people wish to follow it and become a Catholic then that's their right and all the power to them.

I do not belong to a denomination. I am a Christian, that's about as far as it goes. I only go under the banner of pentecostal as that's the closest church to me which has views, beliefs and thoughts which are agreeable to me. There is no structure like Catholicism, nobody tells anyone they must believe in this or have to undertake that ritual/rite of passage. Nobody is threatened with expulsion/eternal damnation.

Just come along and offer worship if you feel like it, join in with the songs (always very cheery and yes, happy-clappy) or not, listen to what the pastor has to say, leave when you want.

No pressure, no hate.

The way I see it is religion is man's attempt to reach God, Christianity is God's attempt to reach man. I don't have rules or regulations I have to follow, I do things because I want to and because it feels right to me. Prayer/worship/faith/beliefs are (IMO) personal between the individual and God, no need for any 'middle-man' or intercession by an organisation.

Mr Angry · 15-11-2011, 22:10

Thanks for that Russ, very insightful.

Just on the parts quoted below - and out of genuine interest...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

The way I see it is religion is man's attempt to reach God, Christianity is God's attempt to reach man. I don't have rules or regulations I have to follow, I do things because I want to and because it feels right to me. Prayer/worship/faith/beliefs are (IMO) personal between the individual and God, no need for any 'middle-man' or intercession by an organisation.

If you don't consider that you have rules or regulations you have to follow then what part does Christianity (which appears to me to be very rules and scripture based) play in your everyday life as a christian?

If there's no need for a "middle man" or intercession by an organisation then where does participation at group level through your attendance at pentecostal services with a pastor fit with that assertion?

I appreciate that you attend of your own free will as and when you elect to do so but it seems to be the case that you are saying there is no merit / need for the involvement of third parties (singular or otherwise) which begs the question "why bother with the others"?

Russ · 15-11-2011, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

If you don't consider that you have rules or regulations you have to follow then what part does Christianity (which appears to me to be very rules and scripture based) play in your everyday life as a christian?

Far too many too mention. But I do things and see things in a certain way because I WANT to - not because I'm TOLD to, or threatened to. My faith is not some behavioural 'straightjacket'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

If there's no need for a "middle man" or intercession by an organisation then where does participation at group level through your attendance at pentecostal services with a pastor fit with that assertion?

It's the Fellowship. Being around other like-minded people. It's the same reason you'd find me on certain wrestling and football forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I appreciate that you attend of your own free will as and when you elect to do so but it seems to be the case that you are saying there is no merit / need for the involvement of third parties (singular or otherwise) which begs the question "why bother with the others"?

I've been up since 4.30am so I'm not firing on all cylinders right now..and I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean with that.

I'm all for any collective having a leader/elder or someone in authority you can go to with questions or for counsel, if that helps.

Stuart · 15-11-2011, 22:57

None of the options really fit my beliefs,although Agnostic fits most closely,

Put simply I do believe that something created us, the world around us and any and all Universes (depending on how many you believe there are).

However, I do NOT believe in an all-seeing, all-knowing God. I do not believe that this being (I use the word "being" for convenience, because I don't necessarily believe that what created us is what we'd define as a "being") still exists.