Disconnection for abuse - Page 9

WHISTLED · 13-08-2008, 19:58

Virgin as with most other service providers can decide if they want to provide you with service. They can cancel that service and therefore that contract if they wish.

Dunno why your LOL'ing not seen anyone that agrees with you yet and cnsidering the typical flow of this forum it unheard of, your arguments are just ramblings.

Get over it

theLaw · 13-08-2008, 20:15

If you ask me there is an element of spying going on here. On phones it is called tapping... it's illegal to open other peoples postal mail (unless with consent), so what on earth is different with email.

I should be able to swear as much as I like in an email, after all it's private... they swear on Virgin broadcasted TV channels, which is for public viewing... so why don't they banned their own TV channels!! Power hungry corporations have a lot of nerve when they more than contradict their own ethics!! Really!!

And on another angle; who determines what a swear word is... a **** is a type of tobacco and could be perceived as a rude word... I am sure there are many cross lingual words that mean something quite legitimate in one language and a swear word in another language... so do I get banned for saying a word that may seem to be a swear word, but is infact not because of the context... and if they are looking at the context then they are spying!!

Freedom of speach does not exclude swear words!!

Our Freedom for life is being taken away by these people and anyone who does not see that is a complete fingerlinin singletinger.

**Hugh** · 13-08-2008, 20:26

theLaw, trying reading the thread.

Someone complained about an email they had received from the OP's VM connection - no spying took place.

Actually, freedom of speech does exclude swear words - it is a disciplinary offence in most work places to use offensive language (in the first post, the OP stated the email contained ""F" word and donkeyhole (I paraphrase)") - obviously the recipient found that offensive, and that is all the context that is required (imho).

Toto · 13-08-2008, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by theLaw

Freedom of speach does not exclude swear words!!

Nonsense!

Trying swearing at a police officer, in private, and see where that gets you.

theLaw · 13-08-2008, 20:32

[Admin Edit: Offensive post deleted]

oblonsky · 13-08-2008, 20:35

Did I miss something here, but how did the complainant poster, Thunderballs, get back on the net to do all this posting if his service has been disconnected for 2 weeks?

I admit it's very harsh to receive a warning letter based on one email, but the pieces don't all seem to fit into place to me.

Lets assume you didn't leave the voicemail, which in itself and in the absence of an apology I would deny you service...

Then I would speak to a solicitor about breach of contract and get them to press Virgin Media for compensation for the lost time and hassle of finding another service provider, based on the evidence of one email.

Why? Well on the basis of a single email it would be tough to prove it actually came from your connection. I could cut and paste an offensive email and modify the IP address to get someone I don't like into trouble with their ISP.

But...

You are where you are now, from what I can tell, because of a combination of factors. Can you prove you didn't leave the offensive voicemail?

So in this situation isn't it best just to cut your losses and move on? From what I understand you had a chance to apologise and chose not to, so find another ISP.

But, as I opened with, you have some form of handy connection as you've been posting regularly on here...

**Hugh** · 13-08-2008, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by theLaw

Admin Edit

Thank you for your reasoned response - see what I mean about it is about the recipient's context. They have swearing and sexually explicit content on TV, but not in church - it is all about context.

Have a nice day.

btw, bolding the letters to make a swear word is a trifle juvenile, dontcha think?

Thunderballs · 13-08-2008, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

theLaw, trying reading the thread.

Someone complained about an email they had received from the OP's VM connection - no spying took place.

Actually, freedom of speech does exclude swear words - it is a disciplinary offence in most work places to use offensive language (in the first post, the OP stated the email contained ""F" word and donkeyhole (I paraphrase)") - obviously the recipient found that offensive, and that is all the context that is required (imho).

This swear word hasnt been used in the workplace.

Freedom of speech is nothing to do with the workplace.

In a workplace you are usually required by your contract of employment to adhere to certain behaviours . Tose beahviours neccessarily restrict your general right to freedom of speech if you want to keep your job.

VM T&Cs AUP do restrict freedom of speech but that does not mean that they are unlawful or lawful. I strongly suspect it is a mixture of both but more down to their choice of what restrictions they place on their customers use of their services and any obligations they have in supplying their services under other laws.

I do not dispute they believe their rights under the contract to terminate my services for whatever reason they choose (but I may if they are judged to be lawful in applying an immediate contract termination for the email content or this aledged Voicemail)

The thrust of my complaint at the moment is I beleive they have to give me 30 days notice under UK law because of the nature of this contract.

They haven't given me that and it has casued me loss.

The frredom of speech curtailments that VMs T&Cs and AUP place on all customers are another matter but they are similar to the Phorm and BPI issues in that VM are at liberty to withhold their service to customers that dont accept them. They may not be at liberty to apply these conditions retrospectively against existing contracts.

As a consumer you have the right to buy and use their services or not.

theLaw · 13-08-2008, 20:40

oh dear forever... juvenile it is not... proving a point about what can get you banned for it is!!

**Hugh** · 13-08-2008, 20:41

Is it me, or is this thread just turning into a

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by theLaw

oh dear forever... juvenile it is not... proving a point about what can get you banned for it is!!

As I am sure you are about to find out.......

Thunderballs · 13-08-2008, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by oblonsky

Did I miss something here, but how did the complainant poster, Thunderballs, get back on the net to do all this posting if his service has been disconnected for 2 weeks?

I admit it's very harsh to receive a warning letter based on one email, but the pieces don't all seem to fit into place to me.

Lets assume you didn't leave the voicemail, which in itself and in the absence of an apology I would deny you service...

Then I would speak to a solicitor about breach of contract and get them to press Virgin Media for compensation for the lost time and hassle of finding another service provider, based on the evidence of one email.

Why? Well on the basis of a single email it would be tough to prove it actually came from your connection. I could cut and paste an offensive email and modify the IP address to get someone I don't like into trouble with their ISP.

But...

You are where you are now, from what I can tell, because of a combination of factors. Can you prove you didn't leave the offensive voicemail?

So in this situation isn't it best just to cut your losses and move on? From what I understand you had a chance to apologise and chose not to, so find another ISP.

But, as I opened with, you have some form of handy connection as you've been posting regularly on here...

Good post.

I am going to take them to court for precisely this if my complaint via ISPA isnt dealt wit hto my satisfaction.

I dont need to see a solicitor since it can be dealt with by the small claims court for very little outlay on my behalf.

I dont believe i will be required to prove i didnt leave an offensive voicemail - I think the onous will be on VM to prove that I did. Since I cant imagine they are going to fabricate one it isnt going to even come up in court.

If they did fabricate one, or someone else has left one using my phone etc, its relevance to the Contractual issues might come into play only insofar as VM using it to invoke their "right" to terminate immediately.

I would suspect they would try to invoke that right with regard to the original email unless there is no case to answer there because it is a non issue and has no legal bearing on my contractual status with them.

Ahh well.. time will tell.

Don't forget that have also made threats against me "If you then switch services to another provider and continue to abuse that service we will also arrange for those services to be suspended &/or disconnected"

I imagine i would raise this in court re the contractual issue but it might also be something I choose to take up in a separate action for harassment/tortuous interference.

In all of this i really get no sense that this has been looked at by anyone with a significant legal background and it is very hard to ascertain the levels of seniority you are dealing with since VM do not put job titles on their letters and their staff are reluctant/don't give them out.

On the one hand I find it hard to believe anyone of reasonable authority could have made the elementary error of sending me a letter in response to a formal complaint via the ISPA that a) doesn't appear to comply with the ISPA complaints procedure itself and b) on one level does not indicate a serious effort on VMs part to deal with my complaint since it is dated the same day I made the complaint on the ISPA website and that date is a Saturday.

The case if it gets to court may be interesting since VMs T&Cs prohibit using their services for anything that could be deemed "offensive" etc. I imagine they will have to defend these terms if the yare going to try and rely in them and that may not hold much sway with the judge in light of the range of potentially "offensive" material they broadcast into millions of homes.

**Hugh** · 13-08-2008, 20:43

Please let us know the outcome.

Toto · 13-08-2008, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderballs

As a consumer you have the right to buy and use their services or not.

That's not quite correct. Nobody has the right to buy VM's services, it is offered under a term of contract, the initial principal being that they can afford to purchase the services, i.e. not a credit risk.

If they get past that little hurdle, then they have rights under the terms of the contract, which help them, and protect Virgin Media.

theLaw · 13-08-2008, 20:46

I think you should submit a petition to http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ regarding freedom laws. Also write to your MP and if you want a war, to the president of Iran.

**Mick** · 13-08-2008, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by theLaw

Freedom of speach does not exclude swear words!!

You will refer to our sites terms of use,

Especially the section where it states:-

You agree that you will not:

Provoke others or cause trouble. If you wish to argue with people then go to instant messenger or email.

Make personal attacks on anyone during your use of the forum.

Use excessive and unnecessary use of bad language.