still racist

[danielf]

.

Originally Posted by Womble

<snip More recently, Builders were starting to earn good money again after the 90's crash.

So Cowboy builders not being able to charge the earth for leaving two bags of hardened cement on your door step is a bad thing?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by danielf

.

So Cowboy builders not being able to charge the earth for leaving two bags of hardened cement on your door step is a bad thing?

Apparently it's better to be ripped off by British Cowboy builders than have the work done properly for a reasonable price by foreigners, and obviously unpatriotic to suggest that British builders should do a resonably priced proper job.
Reminds me of some Asian builders down Incog's way, their slogan is "You've tried the Cowboys, now try the Indians"

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yep it's fantastic, we import workers when there are over a million people sitting on the dole

dole figures can be very deceiving

you will find about a third of that 1 million are those over 55 who have to sign on but are not going to be doing most of the jobs on offer for various reasons

about a another third will be in between jobs

and then you have the longterm unemployed who though most are willing to work wont get jobs from many firms as they tend to shun the long term jobless

[Womble]

Originally Posted by danielf

.

So Cowboy builders not being able to charge the earth for leaving two bags of hardened cement on your door step is a bad thing?

Do me a favour will you, have you seen the quality of the Poles work??

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Apparently it's better to be ripped off by British Cowboy builders than have the work done properly for a reasonable price by foreigners, and obviously unpatriotic to suggest that British builders should do a resonably priced proper job.

Thats utter tosh, and you know it, but hey, you go employ the Poles and see what you get.

Unfair to refer them as 'the Poles' as if you can draw some sort of conculsion about a entire races work from one or two examples. I got my walkman stolen by a French Person once, does mean I think all the French are criminals.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

So, going by your examples above you have to marry someone outside your culture/religion/race to fully integrate? And the black person above has fully integrated unlike other races? Well not knowing how you are defining race, what about the black Jamaicans who are married to black people. Are they not of the same race as the woman in your example above? HAve they failed to integrate?

If a Pakistani muslim marries an English born white muslim (yes they do exist) has the asian person integrated, or failed to because he is still a muslim? Are converts to Islam born and bred in this country now not integrating anymore?

I think you are saying that non Christians should abandon their religious convictions if they want to integrate in this country? Is that right?

I think your reasoning and argument is totally differnt to Pierre's who makes some good points that can be discussed. Your views just often make me shake my head in disbelieve when I read them.

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ----------

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

So, going by your examples above you have to marry someone outside your culture/religion/race to fully integrate? And the black person above has fully integrated unlike other races? Well not knowing how you are defining race, what about the black Jamaicans who are married to black people. Are they not of the same race as the woman in your example above? HAve they failed to integrate?

If a Pakistani muslim marries an English born white muslim (yes they do exist) has the asian person integrated, or failed to because he is still a muslim? Are converts to Islam born and bred in this country now not integrating anymore?

I think you are saying that non Christians should abandon their religious convictions if they want to integrate in this country? Is that right?

I think your reasoning and argument is totally differnt to Pierre's who makes some good points that can be discussed. Your views just often make me shake my head in disbelieve when I read them.

No, they dont have to marry a white person to integrate. The example I gave was of a family that no one could deny have integrated into the country they live in. The worst offenders for not integrating are people who originate from countries where every day life revolves around and is controlled by religion. (Not in the case of Jamaica)
My girlfriend is very religious and is a member of a religion that I would not choose to be part of, however despite her visits to pray 3 or 4 times a week and being from an asian country she has fully integrated into the community here.

She has not given up on her religion or the love of her home country, but she has instead accepted the way of life in the UK and adapted. (whilst stashing away the lovely money she earns here for her return to live in luxury) If she didn't like life that much in the UK she would go back home to live. She does not think the UK is different because there are terrible people like myself who speak their mind and do not follow any religion, but that doesn't cloud her judgement of people.

The biggest offenders who fail to integrate are those who come to the UK and hate our way of life, because the women act like whores and the men drink alchohol etc etc, why go to live in a country if you feel that way about it. If you have no choice but to live there its just something you have to put up with.

certain groups who come to live here segregate themselves instead of mixing with us nasty westerners, and there is certainly religion involved in the majority.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Escapee

No, they dont have to marry a white person to integrate. The example I gave was of a family that no one could deny have integrated into the country they live in. The worst offenders for not integrating are people who originate from countries where every day life revolves around and is controlled by religion. (Not in the case of Jamaica)

<snip>
certain groups who come to live here segregate themselves instead of mixing with us nasty westerners, and there is certainly religion involved in the majority.

Interestingly, one of the least integrated groups (from what I gather), is the Chinese. Now there's a group that sticks to their own. Yet, you don't hear of trouble with the Chinese much.

[willie]

Lets face it racism exists iin all cultures in one form or another not just white against black,asian or oriental but and vice versa white against white as an example but not meaning to offend anyone, how many times have you heard the expression irrish.scots,welsh or english barsteward from another person born in the UK this could be construed as a form of racism.
Or even the caste system employed in asian countries could also be construed as racist

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Womble

Do me a favour will you, have you seen the quality of the Poles work??

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------



Thats utter tosh, and you know it, but hey, you go employ the Poles and see what you get.

Talking of tosh, I can't agree with anything you're saying. I've only ever worked with 2 Polish guys and both were very hardworking and reliable.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Womble

Thats utter tosh, and you know it, but hey, you go employ the Poles and see what you get.

I've never used Polish workmen, but I know a few Poles. They are amongst the hardest working people I have met.

More than I can say for the English..

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by danielf

Interestingly, one of the least integrated groups (from what I gather), is the Chinese. Now there's a group that sticks to their own. Yet, you don't hear of trouble with the Chinese much.

Good point, I agree there.

It was always said (at least around here) that you would not see chinese people out and about in the daytime. That I believe was true, and without stereotyping them it was a case that the chinese around here owned/worked in takeaways. I guess they would not be seen out and about shopping for food because they didn't need to because it was delivered for the business.

I can also say I have never to my knowledge seen anyone of chinese appearance out and about in the pubs around here, again I expect that is a different matter in larger areas.

I do also however fail to remember any chinese people ranting and complaining about the british way of life or execting us to change to suit them, they have come here to earn thier living and just get on with it. I agree they are one of the least integrated groups, but they also appear to be one of the least complaining minority groups.

My girlfriends friends and work collegues from the Phillipines also have their own community in Cardiff, outsiders from their community are welcome and encouraged to attend their BBQ's or house parties. Although not noted for being heavy consumers of alcohol, people from her community can often be seen out and about on a friday or saturday night in Cardiff. They just appear to mix in and get along with just about everyone, although there are certain races even the generally mild mannered filipinos do not like.

PS> I guess integrating is easier for the filipinos because the majority work in hospitals, where they mix on a regular basis with work collegues from different cultures.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Escapee

Good point, I agree there.

......
I do also however fail to remember any chinese people ranting and complaining about the british way of life or execting us to change to suit them, they have come here to earn thier living and just get on with it. .....

.
As is the case with most immigrants to this country.
For example the majority of asians that I know and see are working or running their own businesses and integrate very well into the community. Remember you dont have to spend all your spare time in the pub to integrate. It does suprise me that the only asians you seem to know, with the exception of your girlfriend dont integrate, they only mix with other asians, they all stash their money into the family pot on so called religious reasons.

I suggest you open your eyes a bit more outside your social circle and see what the majority of people do.

.

Originally Posted by Escapee

PS> I guess integrating is easier for the filipinos because the majority work in hospitals, where they mix on a regular basis with work collegues from different cultures.

..
.
.
In London if you visit the top companies such as Price Waterhouse, KPMG, Deloitte, HSBC, Morgan Stanley, all the London Hospitals, there is a high proportion of Asians working there (by which I mean Pakistanis and Indians). They seem to be integrated very well, and all these companies provide prayer rooms for people of ALL faiths. This is replicated in the midlands, Glasgow, quite a few places in fact.

I am beginning to think that your experience of seeing what asian immigrants do is limited to a very narrow and shallow experience.And I am specifically refering to Asians because in my opinion, based on a lot of posts you've written in the past, I feel that it is the Asian (particulary Pakistani muslim) immigrants that you have a big problem with.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

.In London if you visit the top companies such as Price Waterhouse, KPMG, Deloitte, HSBC, Morgan Stanley, all the London Hospitals, there is a high proportion of Asians working there (by which I mean Pakistanis and Indians). They seem to be integrated very well, and all these companies provide prayer rooms for people of ALL faiths. This is replicated in the midlands, Glasgow, quite a few places in fact.

This is the point I was trying to make several pages back - it seems to be geographical.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

This is the point I was trying to make several pages back - it seems to be geographical.

Can you elaborate on that please Russ.

[Russ]

There's a very low ethnic population around here and equally few ethnics working in major employers in the area.