NTL Broadband Terms & Conditions Moving House? - Page 9

Derek · 28-02-2005, 18:05

They send it out for your records and so you can cancel before installation if you are planning to move to the south pole before the 12 months are up

cr80123 · 28-02-2005, 18:10

So there's nowhere on it for you to sign and they don't ask you to return it, it's purely for your records?

scrotnig · 28-02-2005, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr80123

Yes but I didn't receive it. Do they not check to see if they've been signed and returned? In fact, thinking about it further, I don't see how I can possibly be under a contract I haven't signed. Unless of course by ordering the service I automatically agrre to be under it. But in that case why bother sending one out for signature?

No, what happens is that you are told at point of sale that the contract will be sent. If you don't receive it, it's your responsibility to tell the company prior to installation. Once install takes place you're bound whether you've seen it or not.

The company can do nothing more than post it. They aren't obliged to send people round and check you got it. If it's sent, that's good enough.

I used to deal with similar situations when I worked in Credit Control. Almost every customer would argue that we couldn't cut them off for non payment as they had not received their bill. Once we'd established it had been sent, we would advise thus:

"You need to take that up with the Post Office".

ntl rely on the customer to call us and inform us that a bill hasn't been received...copy bills can then be arranged at no cost. The company isn't psychic, and customers are naive if they think that non-receipt of a bill suddenly means they don't have to pay for the service.

Transpose the contract situation on to the above, and you've pretty much got the situation summed up. ntl are not psychic and don't know that you haven't received the contract, you need to call them and tell them. If the customer decides to proceed with installation without seeing the contract, that is THEIR personal choice and they will still be bound by it regardless.

cr80123 · 28-02-2005, 18:39

Again a lot of what you're saying makes sense, but surely there's a big difference between contracts and bills? You're liable for bills as you've actually received goods/services but a written contract must require a signature? I'd have thought ntl would keep a copy of it. Unless of course you're saying I entered into a verbal contract when I ordered the services and the written contract is just confirmation of what I agreed. I have a friend who is a solicitor who is back from holiday on Friday, I was going to ask him about the terms and conditions and moving house etc. but now I'll first ask him about this written contract which doesn't require a signature. I don't even think a written contract was mentioned when I first phoned up but of course I cannot prove that (although neither could ntl). I'll let you know what he says.

Derek · 28-02-2005, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr80123

*snip*
I'll let you know what he says.

I'll save you the hastle. If he's any good he'll say something along the lines of.

"Ntl are in the right."

cr80123 · 28-02-2005, 18:53

Well it's no hassle I'll be seeing him anyway I expect, I may as well ask him. I'd be suprised if he says you're legally bound to a contract you didn't sign.

h3adru5h · 28-02-2005, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr80123

Well it's no hassle I'll be seeing him anyway I expect, I may as well ask him. I'd be suprised if he says you're legally bound to a contract you didn't sign.

When registering your broadband service you are presented with the electronic version of the terms & conditions which form your contract. It is stated clearly to read the terms & conditions and either accept of decline the installation. If declined, then the installation will cancel and you will not be bound to the minimum term of 12 months. Should you press accept however, then you have agreed to the terms & conditions and the contract has been agreed to electronically. The agreement will be recorded remotely to ntl: record servers and an account will be generated and completed, allowing you to go online. I would imagine that you are using the broadband service, thus meaning you have agreed to the terms & conditions and subsequent contract, generated following your agreement.

It is important to point out that the terms & conditions is the same as I have listed previously and you may look at this at any time. Alternatively you may call customer services on 0800 052 2000 to obtain a copy of the residential terms & conditions.

ntl: have made no secrets regarding the minimum term of service. It is clearly stated in the terms & conditions, hire agreements and any literature advertising services. We recommend at all times to research the service prior to agreeing to the terms & conditions, thus restricting yourself to a minimum term of 12 months.

ntl: cannot and will not be liable, or responsible, for any information that has been overlooked by the customer. The customer services department are available to discuss the terms of service prior to installation should you have any concerns.

Chris W · 28-02-2005, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr80123

Well it's no hassle I'll be seeing him anyway I expect, I may as well ask him. I'd be suprised if he says you're legally bound to a contract you didn't sign.

make sure you explain the context- this is very important in every legal problem. And as the others say- you are bound by the contract despite no actual "scribble on a bit of paper"

ian@huth · 01-03-2005, 00:01

The contract with NTL is an agreement made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

There are specific proceedures which have to be followed in such an agreement. Basically the Agreement is an hire agreement.

The customer must be supplied with a written copy of the Agreement which has to be signed by both parties. There are precise rules about what the agreement should contain.

If you want to know more have a look at http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A...0/0/oft017.pdf

h3adru5h · 01-03-2005, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian@huth

The contract with NTL is an agreement made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

There are specific proceedures which have to be followed in such an agreement. Basically the Agreement is an hire agreement.

The customer must be supplied with a written copy of the Agreement which has to be signed by both parties. There are precise rules about what the agreement should contain.

If you want to know more have a look at http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A...0/0/oft017.pdf

This is correct. If you are not entirely satisfied with the services or the terms & conditions to your contract then under the aforementioned Consumer Credit Act, you may cancel within a reasonable notice period from the point of sale. Although "reasonable" is not defined within the terms & conditions, it is reasonable to expect 7 (seven) days for direct sales (via door-to-door salesperson) or 14 (fourteen) days from telesale order. Please read the terms & conditions for further information on this.

Please note that the clock starts ticking from the point of sale.

scrotnig · 01-03-2005, 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by h3adru5h

This is correct. If you are not entirely satisfied with the services or the terms & conditions to your contract then under the aforementioned Consumer Credit Act, you may cancel within a reasonable notice period from the point of sale. Although "reasonable" is not defined within the terms & conditions, it is reasonable to expect 7 (seven) days for direct sales (via door-to-door salesperson) or 14 (fourteen) days from telesale order. Please read the terms & conditions for further information on this.

Please note that the clock starts ticking from the point of sale.

No. Sorry, this is a common misconception.

What you're thinking of is the Distance Selling Regulations. This gives customers a period of 7 days to cancel the contract PRIOR TO INSTALLATION, and only where the company have approached them.

In practice ntl will always allow a cancellation prior to install regardless.

However, once the services are installed THAT IS IT. You do NOT have a period of time to decide if you like the services. ntl will NOT spend hundreds of pounds installing you, only for you to decide you don't really like it and then have it removed a week later. This applies even if the seven and fourteen day periods have not expired....they expire immediately upon installation.

This is a fact, and anyone who thinks otherwise, I suggest you get the service installed then try and cancel the following day. Ain't gonna happen.

Obviously things are different if the installed service doesn't work. But if it is installed and works, and you simply change your mind the next day, then I'm afraid it is tough tumshy....and rightly so!

If anyone wants an analogy...ring a window company and request double glazing and uPVC frames. Then have it fitted a few days later. Then ring the window company and tell them you have changed your mind and would they please remove them and refit your old windows. Again, ain't gonna happen.

Please, no barrack room lawyers telling me I'm wrong. This is what happens and it was my job to tell customers this for almost two years.

Neil · 01-03-2005, 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrotnig

No. Sorry, this is a common misconception.

What you're thinking of is the Distance Selling Regulations. This gives customers a period of 7 days to cancel the contract PRIOR TO INSTALLATION, and only where the company have approached them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Please, no barrack room lawyers telling me I'm wrong. This is what happens and it was my job to tell customers this for almost two years.

I do believe you're wrong Mr Scrotnig, & may well have beem mis-informing people...

The Distance Selling act entitles you to cancel goods up to 7 days from receipt of the goods.

Quote:

CONSUMER PROTECTION (DISTANCE SELLING)

These regulations apply to most contracts made at a distance. They require consumers to be given a certain amount of information before they commit themselves to the deal. They also provide a short cancellation period. The actual length of the cancellation period, however, depends on whether or not the required information has been given. If not it is three months and seven working days.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/guides...w/index4.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/draft_letters/cancel.rtf

Now.....how do you plead in the CF Court?

Guilty or Not Guilty!?

poolking · 01-03-2005, 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr80123

Well it's no hassle I'll be seeing him anyway I expect, I may as well ask him. I'd be suprised if he says you're legally bound to a contract you didn't sign.

You will be trust me.

The same goes for contracts of employment, you don't have to sign the contract, but if you don't let your employer know that you disagree with the terms of the contract, after a certain a period of time your employer automatically assumes that you accept the terms and conditions of your contract.

Derek · 01-03-2005, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

I do believe you're wrong Mr Scrotnig, & may well have beem mis-informing people...

Sadly I don't have access to my Ntl email account any longer but this same question came up about a year ago and I checked with the Ntl legal department who sent me a loooooonnnnnggg explanation of all the ins and outs of the contracts.

Basically it all boiled down to once the services were installed, working and signed off then the minimum term kicked in. This was one of the reasons why 7 days was (almost always) left between confirmation and installation.

intalex · 01-03-2005, 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrotnig

No. Sorry, this is a common misconception.

What you're thinking of is the Distance Selling Regulations. This gives customers a period of 7 days to cancel the contract PRIOR TO INSTALLATION, and only where the company have approached them.

In practice ntl will always allow a cancellation prior to install regardless.

However, once the services are installed THAT IS IT. You do NOT have a period of time to decide if you like the services. ntl will NOT spend hundreds of pounds installing you, only for you to decide you don't really like it and then have it removed a week later. This applies even if the seven and fourteen day periods have not expired....they expire immediately upon installation.

This is a fact, and anyone who thinks otherwise, I suggest you get the service installed then try and cancel the following day. Ain't gonna happen.

Obviously things are different if the installed service doesn't work. But if it is installed and works, and you simply change your mind the next day, then I'm afraid it is tough tumshy....and rightly so!

If anyone wants an analogy...ring a window company and request double glazing and uPVC frames. Then have it fitted a few days later. Then ring the window company and tell them you have changed your mind and would they please remove them and refit your old windows. Again, ain't gonna happen.

Please, no barrack room lawyers telling me I'm wrong. This is what happens and it was my job to tell customers this for almost two years.

That's funny cos' NTL initially installed my broadband so quick that I hadn't even received my contract and t&c's by post yet. As for the electronic version, you don't get that up until all after all the cabling has been installed. I wonder how you are agreeing to the t&c's by agreeing to the installation, when you haven't even been sent the t&c's prior to the installation!!! Don't remember the full t&c's written anywhere on my installation slip either. Chicken and egg situation here!!!