[Merged] NTL - New 1MB / 5GB Cap - should I subscribe @ 300k with NO CAP ?

[Mauldor]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

None of my points have been answered because I assume the NTL defenders know I am right, When the changes happen I will just carry on as normal and see how NTL react when I break the limit, this probably wont happen every month since my usage varies so much eg. I have only used 21 gig this month and it is the 19th already so I expect to not go over 30 gig as I will be away over christmas, but there will be month's I will use around the 50 gig mark, will NTL let this go? or will they send me a overage bill? or will they throttle my speed? how they react will depend on what I think.

If they let it go I bet there will be peope bitching saying its unfair and that I should pay for the extra 10/20 gig, why? so they pay 50pence less a month?

TBH nobody knows yet, much like nobody really knew about the first soft cap and thus Billions of threads all arguing about the pro's and the cons. Best option is basically Wait and See and hopefully like say Pipex they will list in a FAQ what happens. In the case of Pipex if you go over they throttle your connection for the rest of the Billing month or you can pay £1.95 I think it is for 1 GIG extra.

As per Point above by SMHarman (people jumping on 1 mbit) - thats a very good point and now it all makes sense in a funny sort of way. I suppose the main bone of annoyance is that a lot of use Arguing use our connection on a random basis and maybe we would never go over the cap but if they bring in something that is meteringf what you use, then you start to ask questions such as what are they metering and so forth. I just had a dig around the ADSL Lite option on some ISP's and a lot have a policy in where as 12-6am is free of metering as during these hours it does not normally effect people when you download stuff. As already posted by others, a lot have already done this to ease the burden on the UBR at peak time...

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

None of my points have been answered because I assume the NTL defenders know I am right, When the changes happen I will just carry on as normal and see how NTL react when I break the limit, this probably wont happen every month since my usage varies so much eg. I have only used 21 gig this month and it is the 19th already so I expect to not go over 30 gig as I will be away over christmas, but there will be month's I will use around the 50 gig mark, will NTL let this go? or will they send me a overage bill? or will they throttle my speed? how they react will depend on what I think.

If they let it go I bet there will be peope bitching saying its unfair and that I should pay for the extra 10/20 gig, why? so they pay 50pence less a month?

From the limited knowledge around, which we all hope NTL clarifies before it goes and does this.
1. If you do nothing you stay on the contract terms, speeds and soft cap you have now.
2. If you pay the £20 fee you switch to the new contract and the new contract terms, by paying the fee you are explicitly accepting the new terms (and hopefully the FAQ will explain the effects of those.

What NTL do when you go over has yet to be explained. Send you an email to buy more bw, throttle speed? Wait and see, but so far even with the guidance limit (aka cap) that exists on current usage I think we are hard pressed to find people that have been asked to curtail their usage.

[Chrysalis]

pipex have unmetered options, and I am aware there is the option of staying as I am and not going to a new package but this holds no garantuee I will still be on the soft cap and also this option will only be avialble for a limited time, eventually the old packages will be phased out.

[SMHarman]

Not necessisraly, I'm was until recently on Talk 60 with Orange, they phased the plan out 3 years ago.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by LostintheNW

So you think its ok for NTL to decide how we can purchase our software? If anyone wishes to purchase online software which they download, they can and should be able to - what gives NTL the right to dictate peoples shopping habits?

Could quite easily take NTL to court and state they are infringing on human rights (the HRA 1998 has been great for things like this!)

NTL offer a service which has conditions and set a price for that service. If you are happy with that service, those conditions and that price you contract to take it. If you are unhappy with any aspect you are quite free not to take it.

NTL are not dictating what you buy or where you buy it. As long as you work within the terms and conditions you can buy what you want, where you want.

What do you think your local bus company would say if you went to Comet and bought a fridge freezer and then tried to take it home on the bus. Would you take them to court for infringing your human rights if they wouldn't let you on the bus with it?

[elvistheprince]

I wonder if the experience (apocrathal or not) when the 30mph limit in towns was first introduced will be repeated when the (hard) caps are introduced
When the speed limit was intorduced the minor accident rate actualy went UP because where as before people just drove at the speed the felt appropriate once the 30mph limit came in they all drove at that speed.

What I can see happening is that where as before people just "used" the net without any thought to total downloaded, once the cap is introduced people will start looking for excuses to download things so as not to "waste" their available downloads a month (e.g. "well I'm not realy interested in it but I many as well download it now whilst I've got some doenload capacity spare").
Therefore whilst the top say 10% of downloaders will download less because everyone else is downloading up to their limit the average usage per user will actual go up.

I know this certainly occurs with the "free" minutes on mobiles phones etc. oft times people make calls just to "use them up".

Of course even if this does come to pass and NTL scrabble to ditch the cap the genie will already be out of the bottle in all likelyhood people will continue with their (new) old habits.

I wonder if NTL "customer research" addressed this (probably not as almost certainly the people in charge of commisioning the research were also behind the hard cap idea and therefore had too much capital invested in the idea to get the "wrong" result from the research, or am I just being cynical).

Stephen

[LostintheNW]

Originally Posted by ianathuth

NTL offer a service which has conditions and set a price for that service. If you are happy with that service, those conditions and that price you contract to take it. If you are unhappy with any aspect you are quite free not to take it.

NTL are not dictating what you buy or where you buy it. As long as you work within the terms and conditions you can buy what you want, where you want.

What do you think your local bus company would say if you went to Comet and bought a fridge freezer and then tried to take it home on the bus. Would you take them to court for infringing your human rights if they wouldn't let you on the bus with it?

Where does it say on the bus though that you cannot take a fridge on board?

And that is actually a stupid example to use in this situation. How can the Government in this country expect users to get on the net and use it for what its meant - which is not downloading illegal wares and mp3's when there are companies like this around who are going to dictate what can and cannot be done.

I am not arsed what they think, if I wish to purchase gig loads of software and download them I am perfectly within my rights to do so - maybe NTL should change thier AUP regarding large programs as 100meg these days is nothing!

[Chrysalis]

a large program in my opinion is usually 700meg to a few gig.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by LostintheNW

Where does it say on the bus though that you cannot take a fridge on board?

And that is actually a stupid example to use in this situation. How can the Government in this country expect users to get on the net and use it for what its meant - which is not downloading illegal wares and mp3's when there are companies like this around who are going to dictate what can and cannot be done.

I am not arsed what they think, if I wish to purchase gig loads of software and download them I am perfectly within my rights to do so - maybe NTL should change thier AUP regarding large programs as 100meg these days is nothing!

Exactly the point I was making. There is nothing in NTLs terms that stop you from downloading large legal software. The vast majority of users will never come anywhere near the caps but some users will. We will have to wait and see what happens when the cap is reached.

What it comes down to at the end of the day is that if you have something that needs to be carried you choose the carrier that can handle it. This applies whether it is fridge freezers, people or data. You don't order a taxi if you have 30 people to transport, you hire a bus. You don't hire the taxi and then when it comes along complain that it hasn't the capacity that you want and that it's infringing your human rights and the taxi company should be taken to court. If you want to transfer more data than your ISP says you can then you look for an ISP that meets your requirements.