Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
02-03-2014, 19:23
|
#121
|
The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,099
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem
John Reid IIRC. Whatever version of those words he uttered, given what had happened in Iraq, IMHO there was an effort to understate the likely ramifications of any involvement in Afghanistan in order to 'sell' the intervention to parliament and the country. That being my point.
|
We went into Afghanistan before Iraq-2. And I doubt he was referring a Desert Storm, as I'm sure shots were fired then?
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
|
|
|
02-03-2014, 19:30
|
#122
|
Mum 15/08/46 - 30/09/20
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, A secret Moonbase (shh don't tell anybody)
Age: 55
Services: 1 V6, 2x1TB TiVo, SH3. Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ 5G, Ton's of Smart Home stuff, & Cuddy Toy
Posts: 16,967
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Surely this is an "Act of War" from Russia
__________________
I'm a Trustee & Secretary for a local charity
STAY AT HOME: I found out that mum will never walk again as the coronavirus attacked her nervous system. She died on September 30th.
|
|
|
02-03-2014, 23:03
|
#123
|
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 37,110
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Yes. And Afghanistan and Iraq2 were acts of war by America and ourselves. We set the example Russia is now following and TBH Russia's pretext for kicking off in the Crimea is rather better for ours when it came to bombing Iraq back to the stone age.
|
|
|
02-03-2014, 23:09
|
#124
|
Inactive
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belfast
Posts: 4,785
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Yes. And Afghanistan and Iraq2 were acts of war by America and ourselves. We set the example Russia is now following and TBH Russia's pretext for kicking off in the Crimea is rather better for ours when it came to bombing Iraq back to the stone age.
|
You do have a valid point there Chris.
|
|
|
02-03-2014, 23:21
|
#125
|
The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,099
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Yes. And Afghanistan and Iraq2 were acts of war by America and ourselves. We set the example Russia is now following and TBH Russia's pretext for kicking off in the Crimea is rather better for ours when it came to bombing Iraq back to the stone age.
|
I agree,
My post was more of refuting the claim , that somehow we were promised to go in and out of Afghanistan without firing a shot. Which was total nonsense.
That aside, on this issue, best we stay out of it. although the Ukraine is an independent nation. The legacy ties with Russia especially in the Crimea, make this a " watch and see" more than a " get involved" situation.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
|
|
|
02-03-2014, 23:27
|
#126
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,325
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
I can't see Dave staying out of it. he likes attention too much.
it'll be another thing to put down on his CV to him.
|
|
|
02-03-2014, 23:41
|
#127
|
Grumpy Fecker
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Warrington
Age: 64
Services: Every Weekend
Posts: 16,793
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L
I can't see Dave staying out of it. he likes attention too much.
it'll be another thing to put down on his CV to him.
|
I can we have no army left. We could not defend this country against a bunch of drunken boy scouts never mind the Russian bear. If it kicks off other countries would send in a sizeable force we might be able to muster maybe a few tanks and a few jackels.
|
|
|
02-03-2014, 23:45
|
#128
|
cf.mega poster
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,325
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius
I can we have no army left. We could not defend this country against a bunch of drunken boy scouts never mind the Russian bear.
|
And who's fault is that. that we have no army left?
he can always say I'm going to send our unpaid volunteers over. when he addresses the world.
|
|
|
03-03-2014, 03:21
|
#129
|
cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,854
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L
And who's fault is that. that we have no army left?
he can always say I'm going to send our unpaid volunteers over. when he addresses the world.
|
Providing it's at the weekend
|
|
|
03-03-2014, 08:48
|
#130
|
Grumpy Fecker
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Warrington
Age: 64
Services: Every Weekend
Posts: 16,793
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
Providing it's at the weekend
|
So that would be the S.A.S
Saturdays And Sundays
|
|
|
03-03-2014, 08:57
|
#131
|
Inactive
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Right here!
Posts: 22,316
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
We went into Afghanistan before Iraq-2. And I doubt he was referring a Desert Storm, as I'm sure shots were fired then?
|
The point is that we were led into all those conflicts by a Govt. which deliberately overstated the threats (e.g. WMDs) and understated the long term risks of what we were embarking on for reasons best known to themselves. I Never claimed that whatever Reid said was a promise, how could it be, but it was just another example of our politicians understating the reality in order to overcome opposition at the time. Given what has since happened in Afghanistan and Iraq, I hope we've learned some lessons from that.
|
|
|
03-03-2014, 09:22
|
#132
|
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,282
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-...stock-markets/
Quote:
Russia's stock markets have dropped about 10% and its currency has fallen to its lowest point ever against the dollar and the euro because of the crisis in neighbouring Ukraine.
The Moscow Exchange fell about 10% in the first hour of trading today, although it later recovered slightly.
The rouble, already down nearly 10% this year, fell below 50 against the euro for the first time. It was trading below 36.4 to the dollar, also a record.
|
Also according to an article in The Times today Europe isn't as dependent on Russian Oil as it was in 2008. Economic sanctions from Europe and the US could wreck Russia's economy.
|
|
|
03-03-2014, 09:37
|
#133
|
Inactive
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Right here!
Posts: 22,316
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
And how would Putin react to that? The Russian psyche seems to be that they can endure whatever suffering is meted out but will always come back with more. Quite probably a legacy of WWII and other major historical events. Whether it's true or not, the EU being presented as trying to destroy Russia's economy in order to stir up sentiment there is the last thing we want I'd have thought. Is Putin a very clever chess player or irrational? A bit of both maybe? Great caution is required here because in circumstances such as these, one error of judgement could set off a tinderbox.
|
|
|
03-03-2014, 10:06
|
#134
|
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,282
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem
And how would Putin react to that? The Russian psyche seems to be that they can endure whatever suffering is meted out but will always come back with more. Quite probably a legacy of WWII and other major historical events. Whether it's true or not, the EU being presented as trying to destroy Russia's economy in order to stir up sentiment there is the last thing we want I'd have thought. Is Putin a very clever chess player or irrational? A bit of both maybe? Great caution is required here because in circumstances such as these, one error of judgement could set off a tinderbox.
|
The question is how much dissent can he tolerate in his own country? A collapsing economy as he tries to recreate the Soviet Union might be too much for even Putin to cope with.
|
|
|
03-03-2014, 10:31
|
#135
|
Inactive
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Right here!
Posts: 22,316
|
Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
The question is how much dissent can he tolerate in his own country? A collapsing economy as he tries to recreate the Soviet Union might be too much for even Putin to cope with.
|
Or how effectively can he blame western forces of evil for any/all damage to his economy and in so doing stir up nationalistic support. Whatever the real reason for it, Russia descending into chaos would be a very big problem for all of us. I can't see Putin going anywhere soon - quietly or easily. He's becoming a very dangerous caricature of himself.
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:32.
|