The existence of God - Page 89

DRZ400 · 17-04-2009, 16:24

You can teach 'morals' without religion, to imply otherwise is stupid.

Watch the first minute and come back on here and tell me this isn't brainwashing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbZ155AiX9U

dilli-theclaw · 17-04-2009, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Your question, aimed via the quote button at SLM, is inviting him to defend the proposition that it's necessary to use religion in order to bring up a child not to steal.

No, it doesn't. I'd never tell anyone how to bring up their chldren - it's not up to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Seeing as he hasn't made that proposition in this thread

Which I didn't say he did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

what point were you trying to make?

I was just asking a question. Is there a problem with that?

**Hugh** · 17-04-2009, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

You can teach 'morals' without religion, to imply otherwise is stupid.

Watch the first minute and come back on here and tell me this isn't brainwashing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbZ155AiX9U

I love rational discussions, don't you?

Could we have one without the emotive and disdainful language, please?

Gary L · 17-04-2009, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

It's amusing you, of all people, calling someone stubborn

(name-calling when you can't argue your point in a rational manner - excellent).

We answered your question - just because you didn't like the answer, or didn't get the answer you wanted, is your problem, not ours. However, I will try one more time - I would not bring my children up in that way (home schooling or keeping them away from "real life"), and I disagree with the slightly extreme (imho) viewpoints she has - but I cannot be sorry on someone else's behalf; if you feel that is lacking compassion, so be it; you are really way low down on my list of people whose feelings I care about. Sorry, that's incorrect - you are not even on that list.

It's not about not getting the answer I wanted. the answer with you and Russ is always an answer to the way you want the question to be, not the question being asked.
If I asked if blue is blue, you would probably say that blue isn't green.

and as I think you're a bit strange, then I'm glad I'm not on any of your lists.

---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:28 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

yes they've brought out the big guns , don't worry though they forgot the ammunition

Foreverwar will be posting pictures from Google images again in a bit, to try and distract us from the discussion

**Hugh** · 17-04-2009, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

I accept your opinion. I just want to know if you feel sorry for her?

No, I don't - I don't agree how she has been raised, but I don't feel sorry for her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Ok I'll be more specific. are you sorry that she has been force fed God from birth. and that she thinks that unless she has God in her life she will go to hell?

That is what she thinks. she said it in the film.

Changing the question when you didn't get the answer you wanted. I don't agree with her views, but I don't feel sorry for her, just like I don't feel sorry for you and your views, which I disagree with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

It's not about not getting the answer I wanted. the answer with you and Russ is always an answer to the way you want the question to be, not the question being asked.
If I asked if blue is blue, you would probably say that blue isn't green.

and as I think you're a bit strange, then I'm glad I'm not on any of your lists.

Foreverwar will be posting pictures from Google images again in a bit, to try and distract us from the discussion

I hope the answers above help - peace be with you.

Your last point is amusing from the person who inserts random

in posts, whether relevant or not.

**Chris** · 17-04-2009, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRZ400

You can teach 'morals' without religion, to imply otherwise is stupid.

Nobody is suggesting otherwise. What we are suggesting, however, is that you pick and choose what you call 'brainwashing' based on your own personal tastes and beliefs.

Please tell me:
1. Do you support the rights of parents to bring their children up as strict vegans?
2. Do you support the rights of parents to bring their children up to respect the laws of England?

Quote:

Watch the first minute and come back on here and tell me this isn't brainwashing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbZ155AiX9U

Round and round like a hamster on a wheel. Maybe you're still amused by it but I'm not playing your games thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas T

No, it doesn't.

I was just asking a question. Is there a problem with that?

Questions - no. But if you want to ask a question at a tangent from the main discussion, it's probably not a good idea to do it by pressing the 'quote' button. It tends to make people assume you're responding to something - which clearly in this case you weren't - and simply results in confusion.

---------- Post added at 17:35 ---------- Previous post was at 17:33 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Could we have one without the emotive and disdainful language, please?

Of course you can't, DRZ isn't here to hold a rational discussion, he's here to use certain other participants in this thread as proxies onto whom he can vent a lot of personal anger and frustration. I posted earlier to ask him what it is in his past that's made him so angry, but he's ignoring me. Fair enough, I suppose, but I plan to remind him of the fact the next time he accuses someone else of failing to answer his 'questions'.

Gary L · 17-04-2009, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

No, I don't - I don't agree how she has been raised, but I don't feel sorry for her.

You've only just answered this one. does it tie into your argument below as to why you've only just gave an answer?

Quote:

Changing the question when you didn't get the answer you wanted. I don't agree with her views, but I don't feel sorry for her, just like I don't feel sorry for you and your views, which I disagree with.

It was a more specific question, because the original wasn't being read properly. it was looking like another question to what was being asked.
is the reason you don't feel sorry for her because it's God that she has been taught, or doesn't it matter what it was?

Quote:

I hope the answers above help - peace be with you.

Sarcasm doesn't suit you. it's too transparent

dilli-theclaw · 17-04-2009, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Questions - no. But if you want to ask a question at a tangent from the main discussion, it's probably not a good idea to do it by pressing the 'quote' button. It tends to make people assume you're responding to something - which clearly in this case you weren't - and simply results in confusion.

Nope, all that's happened now is that I've had my opinions confirmed as to why I no longer go into churches or try to discuss things of a religious nature in there, or here.

It was a simple question and all that happened was that I got jumped on on and assumed that I was trying to ask a question based on some agenda.

Never mind, I've learnt my lesson and with luck I shall not bother to do either again.

Gary L · 17-04-2009, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Your last point is amusing from the person who inserts random

in posts, whether relevant or not.

You always want to have the last word. even if it doesn't actually make sense.

**Chris** · 17-04-2009, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas T

Nope, all that's happened now is that I've had my opinions confirmed as to why I no longer go into churches or try to discuss things of a religious nature in there, or here.

It was a simple question and all that happened was that I got jumped on on and assumed that I was trying to ask a question based on some agenda.

Never mind, I've learnt my lesson and with luck I shall not bother to do either again.

In which case, I honestly think all you're seeing is what you wanted to see. As I posted above, there are perfectly good reasons for thinking you were asking your question in a certain way, and those reasons have nothing to do with religion. They simply have to do with the normal operation of a threaded discussion on a bulletin board such as this one.

Saaf_laandon_mo · 17-04-2009, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas T

Somehow I doubt it, but as you are unprepared (see below) to re-make it, I guess I'll never know.

Yup - I have listened to ALL the posts in this thread. But thanks for assuming I haven't.

As you wish. But thanks for not bothering.

Thomas, I wasn't trying to be a smart ass when I made my original reply to you. I honestly thought/assumed you had not got the point I was making and thought that it would help if you re-read the post - sorry for sounding or coming across with some arrogance.

The point I'm making - as Chris summed up- is that we teach kids alot of things including religion. They can be taught without religion being included but some people choose to teach religion too. I teach my daughter not to run across the road out side my house - I don't need to use religion to make that point. Similary good table manners are taught without any mention of religion, am I brainwashing my daughter in that aspect too.

Why should a parent teaching a child about religion be accused of brainwashing there kids. I can then apply the same argument taht anything I teach a child is brainwashing them. I hope that makes it clear.

Anyway I'm off now. Probably contribute later to this thread, but once more if I sounded like an arrogant twit in my original reply to your post it was genuinely not intented.

Cheers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

You're missing the point. It's not about whether religion is necessary in order to teach someone not to steal, its about a parent's right to choose how to bring their child up and what to teach them.

DRZ says that bringing a child up to believe in God from birth is 'brainwashing' purely and simply because he doesn't believe in God. Yet (we speculate) there are other things children are taught from birth that he's not railing against, like not stealing, running across roads, speaking French, eating with their mouths closed or being strict vegans. I wonder why not.

dilli-theclaw · 17-04-2009, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

In which case, I honestly think all you're seeing is what you wanted to see. As I posted above, there are perfectly good reasons for thinking you were asking your question in a certain way, and those reasons have nothing to do with religion. They simply have to do with the normal operation of a threaded discussion on a bulletin board such as this one.

I did not ask the question 'in a certain way' you are only seeing what you WANT to see. If you were unsure you could have asked first instead of assuming what I was doing.

Anyway I don't suppose there is any point in discussing it.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:45 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Thomas, I wasn't trying to be a smart ass when I made my original reply to you. I honestly thought/assumed you had not got the point I was making and thought that it would help if you re-read the post - sorry for sounding or coming across with some arrogance.

The point I'm making - as Chris summed up- is that we teach kids alot of things including religion. They can be taught without religion being included but some people choose to teach religion too. I teach my daughter not to run across the road out side my house - I don't need to use religion to make that point. Similary good table manners are taught without any mention of religion, am I brainwashing my daughter in that aspect too.

Why should a parent teaching a child about religion be accused of brainwashing there kids. I can then apply the same argument taht anything I teach a child is brainwashing them. I hope that makes it clear.

Anyway I'm off now. Probably contribute later to this thread, but once more if I sounded like an arrogant twit in my original reply to your post it was genuinely not intented.

Cheers.

It makes no odds to me WHAT you or anyone teach their kids. In the end it's none of my business.

As long as you are looking after them, loving them and treating them right there are a lot worse things you can teach them than a religious viewpoint.

Me, I don't teach my boy that.

I DO teach him moral views and how to treat people correctly.

I also tell him that I'm not sure there is a god etc, but he's taught at school there is. So I tell him that is up to him to decide.

Anyway, as always just my 2p

Gary L · 17-04-2009, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas T

I did not ask the question 'in a certain way' you are only seeing what you WANT to see. If you were unsure you could have asked first instead of assuming what I was doing.

Anyway I don't suppose there is any point in discussing it.

There is if we want to get away from talking about Deborah being brainwashed into thinking that she will go to hell if she doesn't spread the word of God

Another thing that was said was that life on earth now is nothing. it's the eternity afterwards that is important. her father said that he was teaching eternity, when asked what it was he was teaching his children.

**Hugh** · 17-04-2009, 16:51

Post #1259

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Am I sorry she has God in her life? No. Am I sorry her life is being restricted to the point of her never knowing what a normal teenager's upbringing is like? Yes.

post #1261

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

What he said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

You've only just answered this one. does it tie into your argument below as to why you've only just gave an answer?

Facts - ain't they a beyatch?

dilli-theclaw · 17-04-2009, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Another thing that was said was that life on earth now is nothing. it's the eternity afterwards that is important. her father said that he was teaching eternity, when asked what it was he was teaching his children.

if I was sure there was said eternity I'd teach my boy it too.