Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

However we try to analyse this system and figure out how it will be implemented we come up against one major obstacle - it doesn't actually work. If it did BT would already be using it.

[SelfProtection]

Originally Posted by Peter N

However we try to analyse this system and figure out how it will be implemented we come up against one major obstacle - it doesn't actually work. If it did BT would already be using it.

You could say it's the same problem as 121Media aka Phorm had with their notorious rootkit, once it was discovered others worked out how to combat or nullify it!

Without a cookie how can individual surfers be identified for a single session or otherwise, without the Webwise System using PII Info?

[Wildie]

can they use ip ranges for those mugs who opt in ?

[SelfProtection]

Originally Posted by Wildie

can they use ip ranges for those mugs who opt in ?

Routers only present as One IP address to the ISP for multi-accounts, unless a way is found to identify an individual (even if so called anonymized) this would not be a target advertisement System?

[popper]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

have BT legal not heard the expression when considering the invitation page

"you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear"

it is used to suggest that some improvement projects of different kinds are doomed to failure.

peter

apparently you can
#92 ,its OC a derivative work and using other peoples prior work /property, but perhaps BT don't care about paying for these licenses if it makes them some cash. they being just your average commercial pirate for profit after all.

[pseudonym]

Originally Posted by lucevans

and don't forget that if you use certain web browsers (safari is one) then the Phorm system in it's current form won't work and they don't even try to invite you/drop a cookie on your system - the layer 7 kit just automatically routes you straight to where you wanted to go in the first place.

As it stands, Safari is compatible with Phorm's cookie forging via redirects, but wasn't supported because phorm's adverts use third party cookies, which it blocks.

If only someone could convince Safari's developers to treat cookies set after a redirect to another domain as third party cookies as is done by Opera, and convince Opera's developers to block third party cookies by default as is done by Safari, then both browsers would be incompatible with Phorm's system. Although I for one still would not be happy with my browsing going through Phorm's DPI kit, whether they claim to process it or not.

[phormwatch]

Originally Posted by ImaJack

Thanks for the explanation of TOR.

Because this is way above my head do any of you who responded to my question mind if I cut and paste the relevant parts and and post them on the other message board?

I'll make sure I don't claim credit for it and won't put any usernames there either. I'll wait a couple of days to give you a chance to object, I read all the posts here so I'll spot it if anyone doesn't want me to do it.

If nothing else it keeps the thread I opened a couple of months ago on BT/Phorm appearing on the front page of the board.

I have posted a link to this thread too but I imagine it's a bit too much to expect someone to read right through 800+ pages!

I don't mind, but the post following mine is more correct.

Have any webmasters here contacted Phorm as potential customers?

[phormwatch]

Here is an update of the text version of the Phorm Flyer. Please use this one instead:

http://pastebin.com/f54cc5603

...For posting on relevant Forums, Newsgroups, Mailing Lists, etc.

Originally Posted by Dephormation

BT are going to pour their coffers into the pockets of web site creators if this is switched on.

To the point where investment in next generation infrastructure is going to be the very least of their problems.

And instead of paying BT for broadband... we will make money off BT

A nice quote regarding targetted advertising...

"This stuff doesn't work. Amazon is still showing me things they think I will like based on my Christmas purchases and one-shot wedding gifts."

Oh, it's after midnight. No appearance of a Webwise Phorm BT partership actually doing anything. Sweet dreams

[phormwatch]

Entity-Relationship diagram update:

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7875/phormumlsu8.jpg

Please check for correctness and suggest updates.

---------- Post added at 00:25 ---------- Previous post was at 00:10 ----------

BT/Webwise Topic on Save As... forum started yesterday.

http://www.filesaveas.co.uk/cgi-bin/...1217334228/1#1

Feel free to join in...

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by popper

apparently you can
#92 ,its OC a derivative work and using other peoples prior work /property, but perhaps BT don't care about paying for these licenses if it makes them some cash. they being just your average commercial pirate for profit after all.

there is always one smart alec that can prove people wrong

peter

[madslug]

Originally Posted by pseudonym

As it stands, Safari is compatible with Phorm's cookie forging via redirects, but wasn't supported because phorm's adverts use third party cookies, which it blocks.

If only someone could convince Safari's developers to treat cookies set after a redirect to another domain as third party cookies as is done by Opera, and convince Opera's developers to block third party cookies by default as is done by Safari, then both browsers would be incompatible with Phorm's system. Although I for one still would not be happy with my browsing going through Phorm's DPI kit, whether they claim to process it or not.

Since I enabled browser logging and started looking at browser requests and server responses in those logs, I find that some tracking scripts are setting cookies even though they are what I would think of as 3rd party scripts / cookies. For example, scripts called from tracker.domain.tld are setting cookies in the domain domain.tracker.tld. Some even go so far as to set cookies for domain.tracker2.tld.
(Most cookies are set when images are called so surfing without images greatly reduces the risk of cookies, even when javascript is enabled.
Visit bt.com home page.
Without images, bt.com only sets cookies in the domain .bt.com.
With images enabled, the home page sets cookies in the domains:- .doubleclick.net, .2o7.net, btow.touchclarity.com, .bt.com.
Virginmedia.com home page has fewer cookies:- .virginmedia.com and .advertising.com plus without images the travelsupermarket.com cookie not declaring a domain, and no javascript option giving me a cookie in the domain .atdmt.com
Settings included no images from foreign servers and no javascript from foreign servers.)

If this is what ordinary 'trusted' websites are doing with their 3rd party analytics / tracking / profiling scripts which start off calling a first party script hosted on their server, how much more can a DPI system do? There is nothing in the DPI process that will decrease the number of 3rd party trackers and profilers that have your surfing data, it just adds one known layer of profiling and hides multiple other potential layers.

---------- Post added at 01:26 ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Hank

Oh, it's after midnight. No appearance of a Webwise Phorm BT partership actually doing anything. Sweet dreams

Does anybody know when the BT servers are 'rebooted'. I would expect it to be somewhere between 2 am and 4 am.
Even if they are only sending out 10k invites on the 24 hour notice, most mail systems will fall over if more than 50 emails are sent out per batch so it will take a few hours to send out all those advance warning messages.