Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Florence]

VM are just sitting waiting for BT to win or lose to make their next move..

Do you feel lucky would you trust them in a sticky position?

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by BetBlowWhistler

Do you think the situation being investigated by the Police courtesy of Alex might explain it?

---------- Post added at 08:05 ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 ----------



It's worth pointing out to the non technical that the IP packets that everyone refers to has two sections.
1. IP Header
2. Payload

The IP header contains information to allow the packet to traverse the internet. Source IP, Destination IP, protocol type etc.

You should note that the information in this header cannot be used for traffic shaping of http traffic and the like as it would only mention the protocol 'tcp'.

You have to process this packet to 'strip off the outer layer' thus revealing the payload to consist of the following (let's continue with the http example)..

1. TCP Header
2. Payload

The TCP header contains other information for the processing computer so it knows what to do with it and how the packet fits in with other packets. Key fields in this header are the source and destination ports.

Most people will know by now that http runs on tcp/80, and this is all the information you really need to shape this traffic. You could distinguish between ftp, http and bit-torrent traffic at this level assuming everyone is using the standard ports for such protocols.

What DPI does is to look into the payload section which contains information for the application that is listening on the mentioned port, in this case port 80. For the sake of simplicity this is where your personal information is kept and you could also analyse the payload to see if you really are looking at http traffic or if you have disguised a bit-torrent stream on port 80.

My point is, it is nothing like a postcard apart from the fact that the packet isn't encrypted. (With encrypted traffic you would typically only see the IP header information so it can get where it's going).

It is very much like an envelope within an envelope within an envelope.

Anyone wishing to understand further is encouraged to google 'osi 7 layer model' - you should be able to find some general overviews. Even the wiki pages might be understandable

Yes it is but the fact that I feel Lord West is trying to get out is that the envelope is already regularly opened and the content looked at, just now it will be opened for the purpose of sending the recipient a higher quality of junk mail, sorry advertising.

Not sure if posted already. ComputerWeekly has a pic of The Reps of The Campaign outside the BT AGM and story BT Pushes On With Webwise.

www.computerweekly.com/231510.htm

And page 5 of this week's edition in News Of The Week. I'd type more but doing this on my mobile not easy

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Hank

Not sure if posted already. ComputerWeekly has a pic of The Reps of The Campaign outside the BT AGM and story BT Pushes On With Webwise.

www.computerweekly.com/231510.htm

And page 5 of this week's edition in News Of The Week. I'd type more but doing this on my mobile not easy

Oh how nice a timely they link tot he public meeting where 80/20 thinking organised it and promised the video up within mins. Phorm were so open and transparent they still sitting on the video..

Again selective news to make phorm look good kent could sell sand to the Arabs and get away with it. Bt are the fool that is soon to be parted from its money...

[zwade]

Looks like The Financial Times and Guardian have seen the light.


From http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...3076075812.htm

Still, leading British dailies the Financial Times and the Guardian ruled out participating in Phorm's trial, despite previous discussions, the latter citing consumer concerns as one reason.

[phormwatch]

Originally Posted by fidbod

Gather round boys and girls and let me tell you about MPs and their concern for data protection and privacy.

I have as many have been, in regular contact with my MP about Phorm albeit with limited sucess. So to my surprise there was a letter waiting from me when i got home last night.

Unable to contain my anticipation I opened to find a rather bland letter confirming that she has written to BERR on my behalf and has enclosed the reply from Shriti Vadera.

Not so bad a hear you musing but here is the kicker.

The letter from BERR did not reference me at all. In fact it was the photocopy of a response from BERR that my MP's office has recieved from a seperate complaint about Phorm. Bad enough and yet there was worse....

The response from BERR contained the full name, address and phone number of the other individual who had written to complain about Phorm.

It really makes me wonder if the majority of Parliament live in cloud cuckoo land and have no concept of data protection!!

That's one for The Register, methinks.

[JackSon]

Originally Posted by zwade

Looks like The Financial Times and Guardian have seen the light.


From http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...3076075812.htm

Is this the first sighting we have of the FT turning it's back on OIX? I believe a different source is required for confirmation. Good find, Zwade.

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by zwade

Looks like The Financial Times and Guardian have seen the light.


From http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...3076075812.htm

I see a known Phorm PR poster has the first comment. See
#2672 for the same name.

[davethejag]

Good Evening All, just seen this -

"However, surely the bigger question is whether consumers want to be targeted in this way and whether it will be able to deliver advertising that is truly relevant."

And

"Consumers appear to be wary of this kind of targeting too. New Media Age published research last week stating that 65 per cent of those queried would leave their internet service provider if it introduced behavioural targeting."

From Retail Week -

http://www.retail-week.com/ChannelCo...ood_phorm.html

Dave.

Nebuad Rant! -

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/fea...le.php/3760401

Search for Phorm on ebay and it comes up as a "Sponsored Link" -


Phorm
Creating two revolutions: in online advertising and in privacy
www.phorm.com

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by JackSon

Is this the first sighting we have of the FT turning it's back on OIX? I believe a different source is required for confirmation. Good find, Zwade.

New Niches, Pinker Pages, No More Subscribers (23 June 2008)

Quotes Grimshaw, MD of FT.com...

Advertising: Grimshaw said a downturn is unavoidable in this economy but: “Over the next three to five years, ”there’s going to be this big flood of money coming out of traditional media on to the web so, regardless of how the advertising economy is doing, the web should be pretty buoyant through that period”.

Grimshaw said FT.com has had discussions to run ads from controversial behavioural ad targeter Phorm, describing it as “an interesting technology” though “there are clearly some privacy concerns around it that are legitimate to some extent” - so he’s watching and waiting before deciding to opt in.

[Wildie]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

New Niches, Pinker Pages, No More Subscribers (23 June 2008)

Quotes Grimshaw, MD of FT.com...

Advertising: Grimshaw said a downturn is unavoidable in this economy but: “Over the next three to five years, ”there’s going to be this big flood of money coming out of traditional media on to the web so, regardless of how the advertising economy is doing, the web should be pretty buoyant through that period”.

Grimshaw said FT.com has had discussions to run ads from controversial behavioural ad targeter Phorm, describing it as “an interesting technology” though “there are clearly some privacy concerns around it that are legitimate to some extent” - so he’s watching and waiting before deciding to opt in.

they should take note of the fact it is now has to be opt in and the customers are aware of it and will leave isp using it.

[warescouse]

I see Tiscali are beginning legal proceedings against BT.

The BBC Web site is saying

"Tiscali has begun legal proceedings against BT after the telco sent letters to its customers hoping to persuade them to swap to BT's broadband service."

and then later on the quote:

"Some privacy experts have questioned how BT got hold of customer details but BT insisted that it used "reputable external sources". "
is mentioned by the BBC.

This is the problem how I see it.

If Phorm/WebWise came into being. Would this be one of the reputable external sources as well? Who monitors the interceptors. Where would be the accountability.

Maybe even now, some other ISP's may be thinking, BT don't play fair.

[SimonHickling]

I've not seen this mentioned yet.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7522334.stm

Six of the UK's biggest net providers are believed to be backing a government plan to tackle music piracy online.

I'd be keen to see the intersection of that set of six with the set of ISPs planning to intercept for advertising. Although as BT and Virgin have both sent letters on the matter recently, perhaps not that surprised.

So now they appear to want to act as investigator, judge and jury over file sharing. Oh and I suppose they'll HAVE to intercept the communications to do that. And not just on port 80. As anyone who legally [down/up]loads Linux distributions over P2P will know, you can use any port you like.

Bring on the self signed certificate - and then they'll know I'm a terrorist because I'm encrypting all my traffic. I really do hate the technology that pays my mortgage, when it gets into the wrong hands.

[madslug]

As a side note: anybody else noticing how many tracking cookies are being hosted by the sites carrying articles related to Phorm and NebuAd? And cgi scripts are tricking the browser into displaying 3rd party images - how many of them are also for tracking via logs and cookies?
Time to block images as well as cookies?

[Wildie]

found a odd one humanclickid no idea of ever allowing that one as all cookies have to go by me.