Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Gixer]

The Register is reporting that NebuAd 'American Phorm' is having a torrid time at Congress - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...ebuad_hearing/

Originally Posted by Gixer

The Register is reporting that NebuAd 'American Phorm' is having a torrid time at Congress - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...ebuad_hearing/

Need a space before the smiley, as above

[MovedGoalPosts]

I'd suggest to everyone that they refrain from baiting or flaming those who may appear to have a different opinion of Phorm than themselves. The Cable Forum Team is watching, and will not hesitate to take action against those who are stirring for the sake of it. Let's debate the technology and implications please, not the characteristics of the posters.

[Tarquin L-Smythe]

With due respect .Did any of those attending the BT AGM yesterday have any sort of discussion on see any evidence of the Pro Phorm support group ,indeed were they there.

[AlexanderHanff]

No Phorm advocates were there.

Alexander Hanff

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Yes in the same way all data on all ports goes through their L7 Switches, they just chose to pick out and analyse the http stream on port 80.

As it's competitor has publicly stated...

NebuAd can, but does not, monitor e-mail, instant messages or Internet phone calls, a spokeswoman said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...v=rss_business

i have just finished two days of intensive training on a content filtering system that uses layer seven deep packet inspection technology to do content filtering, traffic shaping and firewalling.

it is scary just what we could see on the network, even down to the applications that where listening on what ports (but it did need a lightwieght agent on the pc to do that bit)

if phorm can do half of what this kit could do god help us

peter

[tarka]

A thought has occured to me (if this has been brought up before I must of missed it). If I recall correctly, BT said that THEY were developing a cookieless system (be it opt in or out). If that were the case, two points spring to mind.

1. If BT are redeveloping part of the Phorm technology, does that have any implications? It would no longer be solely Phorms technology.

2. Given the nature of the system using cookies/redirects, to move to a cookieless system would change the way it works quite considerably from what Dr Clayton documented (apart from the actual profiling process I would imagine). Who would be responsible for auditing that new system? Given that Phorm/BT got burnt quite badly by opening the system up publicly before, would they do it again?

Regards...

[D_Advocate]

Does anybody have a date/time as to when the next BT trials
of Phorm are taking place (if indeed they are), and which geographical
area they will be targeting ?

D_A

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by R Jones

I'm in a rush - but does what the HO minister said about no contacts prior to... pan out with what is in Dephormation's FOI bundles on Counter Terrorism unit contacts about Phorm?

In the HoL debate, Lord West of Spithead said:

"The Home Office, BERR and the Information Commissioner were not aware of the two tests conducted by BT, which was not good."

This is what an official in the Home Office told me... I haven't circulated or uploaded this email yet... I was waiting for the final set of documents. Given they've punted that into the long grass here it is:

"You have asked the Home Office before when it knew about the BT/Phorm trials and we responded that we were not aware of those trials. Neither BT nor Phorm or any of their representatives informed the Home Office that they were conducting the trials nor would we expect them to. The Home Office is does not regulate this activity, and it would be a police matter if RIPA was breached. And possibly anticipating your next question; we did we ask them (BT or Phorm) not to tell us of any trials tests scoping exercises etc that they were either planning to conduct or conducting or had conducted for that matter, etc . I hope I have established that the Home Office had no knowledge of the trials until after they became public knowledge."

I think that speaks for itself really, in a confused sort of way. I can't make sense of "we did we". Did we or didn't we.

Perhaps they asked BT not to tell them, as if that would make it alright.

It seems strange that the Home Office would not expect to be informed that someone was conducting secret mass surveillance at the core of BT's network, twice, using Russian supplied systems, during a period of critical/severe security alert, as a courtesy perhaps if nothing else...

The Home Office still won't tell me when they first received enquiries, who the enquiries came from, or what the substance of those enquiries was.

See here for current thoughts and HO FoI releases.

Pete.

[Tarquin L-Smythe]

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Does anybody have a date/time as to when the next BT trials
of Phorm are taking place (if indeed they will), and which geographical
area they will be targeting ?

D_A

Going on the previous two trials why would the tell us!

Originally Posted by Gixer

The Register is reporting that NebuAd 'American Phorm' is having a torrid time at Congress - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...ebuad_hearing/

Well done Rob, didnt see most of what transpired there distracted reading the above link.... but I can imagine. @ Moderators, zen time, say to the world in general 'speak to the hand, the delete buttons not listening'

Anyhooo, back on topic, why are these companies (Phorm/NebuAd) so keen to preserve no Opt-in, I believe its because through there own background/research/experience they know the buisiness model would not hold water if they had to rely on the customer trusting them, in which case they are just shooting themselves in the foot because the public wont accept being essentially forced into an option. Or are there other reasons the more internet savvy amongst us can highlight?
EDIT: And I know the underlying technology still ideally needs removed and preventing, but I am just curious about this bit

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Does anybody have a date/time as to when the next BT trials
of Phorm are taking place (if indeed they are), and which geographical
area they will be targeting ?

D_A

No this information has not been published anywhere.

Alexander Hanff

Originally Posted by D_Advocate

Does anybody have a date/time as to when the next BT trials
of Phorm are taking place (if indeed they are), and which geographical
area they will be targeting ?

D_A

I believe they have promised 24 hours notice. Other than that, they are saying nowt.

[AlexanderHanff]

Originally Posted by alt3rn1ty

Well done Rob, didnt see most of what transpired there distracted reading the above link.... but I can imagine. @ Moderators, zen time, say to the world in general 'speak to the hand, the delete buttons not listening'

Anyhooo, back on topic, why are these companies (Phorm/NebuAd) so keen to preserve no Opt-in, I believe its because through there own background/research/experience they know the buisiness model would not hold water if they had to rely on the customer trusting them, in which case they are just shooting themselves in the foot because the public wont accept being essentially forced into an option. Or are there other reasons the more internet savvy amongst us can highlight?

It is blatantly obvious that an opt-in model would cripple their revenues. People just do not want this technology as the latest poll shows, so there is no reason to think they would opt-in to it. Opt-Out guarantees Phorm almost 90% of the entire broadband market here in the UK, Opt-In guarantees Phorm's failure.

Alexander Hanff

[MovedGoalPosts]

Apathy in all walks of life counts for a lot.

Opt Out, many just won't bother, or at least that will be the assumption, as it's something else to do.

Opt In, same argument applies.