BNP loses seats

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by Steve_NTL

Whose to say they are better informed? Just because there idea's relate more to your own, does that make them better informed?

.

People that work with asylum seekers every day, other workers in criminal justice!!
People that do research on immigration and todays social problems.....issues surrounding oppression, racial abuse, crime etc
Issues that I have to know about and write about and research around.

You see, I dont just talk to some guy down at the pub .......

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by Defiant

Oh I'm sorry let me explain. In British pubs they have rooms which have the name vault outside them

I can honestly say I have never been in a pub that has a room which has the name "vault" outside it!

Is it an English thing?
Here in sunny Scotland sometimes if its posh we have a place called a "lounge".

Hmmmm a Vault eh???.....its conjouring up all kind of images......whips and chains....screaming........dog fights...leering men with no teeth arguing about todays issues.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by aliferste

Just like the rest of the UKs offending population then. You make it sound as if it is only asylum seekers that do this. I admite yes, there is a criminal element within the asylum seeker community.....but hey...who cares???? its to be expected !! there is an element of criminality in any community.

What annoys me is that they all seem to be getting tarred with the same brush!!

I previously stated that it is not just assylum seekers that commit crimes!

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by aliferste

I can honestly say I have never been in a pub that has a room which has the name "vault" outside it!

Is it an English thing?
Here in sunny Scotland sometimes if its posh we have a place called a "lounge".

Hmmmm a Vault eh???.....its conjouring up all kind of images......whips and chains....screaming........dog fights...leering men with no teeth arguing about todays issues.

Don't have pubs with Vaults in down south either. Well, not vaults they advertise...

[aliferste]

[QUOTE=RamrodThese people that I speak to are not prejudiced, they just notice patterns of criminal behaviour being repeated over and over by (but obviously not confined to) certain ethnic groups.
Obviously we have our own home grown criminal types but do we really need to import other cultures criminal tendencies?[/QUOTE]


Ah yes, Sorry i see now!

Your saying that black people commit more crimes than white people?

[Ramrod]

[QUOTE=aliferste][QUOTE=RamrodThese people that I speak to are not prejudiced, they just notice patterns of criminal behaviour being repeated over and over by (but obviously not confined to) certain ethnic groups.
Obviously we have our own home grown criminal types but do we really need to import other cultures criminal tendencies?[/QUOTE]

Ah yes, Sorry i see now!

Your saying that black people commit more crimes than white people?

lol,(if you want me to be specific) I'm saying that a fair few Nigerians go in for fraud, a lot of Kosovans carry knives and arn't shy in using them and a lot of Romanys seem to go in for begging and pickpocketing.
Thats not rasict or prejudiced, It's just personal observation and what various police and other public servants have told me.
That is of course a generalisation but I bet that the law abiding people from those communities would agree with me.

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

lol,(if you want me to be specific) I'm saying that a fair few Nigerians go in for fraud, a lot of Kosovans carry knives and arn't shy in using them and a lot of Romanys seem to go in for begging and pickpocketing.
Thats not rasict or prejudiced, It's just personal observation and what various police and other public servants have told me.
That is of course a generalisation but I bet that the law abiding people from those communities would agree with me.

But Ramrod........The exact same can be said for white people as well, just as many white people are into fraud, pickpocketing and begging etc than there black people. Im not disputing that there ARE black people etc into all that criminal behaviour..
Its just that [B]you[B] seem to notice it more.......possibly because you have admitted to being "racist".......which i might add is a very brave thing to do and i respect you for admitting it even if i think you are misguided.

Originally Posted by aliferste

Your saying that black people commit more crimes than white people?

The conviction rate is certainly higher. If you'll forgive me pre-empting what I think you're thinking, to put this down to police persecution and racist juries is surely as simplistic as trying to suggest that the offending rate is identical when 'black' people and 'white' people are compared.

There are compelling and unacceptable social reasons why offending rates are higher among black people, but I think the unqualified statement that 'black people commit more crimes than white people' is sadly true.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by aliferste

But Ramrod........The exact same can be said for white people as well, just as many white people are into fraud, pickpocketing and begging etc than there black people. Im not disputing that there ARE black people etc into all that criminal behaviour..

I can see what you are saying but if I am told of a black person involved in a credit card scam or stealing identities or even that good old e-mail scam and I ask 'was it Nigerians?' I get told 'yes' quite often. Of course you get British beggars but have you been on the tube lately?- they are outnumbered by Romanys.

Its just that [B]you[B] seem to notice it more.......possibly because you have admitted to being "racist".......which i might add is a very brave thing to do and i respect you for admitting it even if i think you are misguided.

As I said before, individuals I get on with/like/admire, groups of individuals are a different beast.

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by towny

The conviction rate is certainly higher. If you'll forgive me pre-empting what I think you're thinking, to put this down to police persecution and racist juries is surely as simplistic as trying to suggest that the offending rate is identical when 'black' people and 'white' people are compared.

There are compelling and unacceptable social reasons why offending rates are higher among black people, but I think the unqualified statement that 'black people commit more crimes than white people' is sadly true.

This is usually the time where i go trailing off to find out exactly what the research says.........I cant be bothered !!

So im gonna let you guys do it

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/

[aliferste]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I can see what you are saying but if I am told of a black person involved in a credit card scam or stealing identities or even that good old e-mail scam and I ask 'was it Nigerians?' I get told 'yes' quite often. Of course you get British beggars but have you been on the tube lately?- they are outnumbered by Romanys.
.

But the identity and email thing has got nothing to do with the UK crime thingymijjigers !! To be honest if you get conned by them well.........they are playing on peoples greed!!

LOL

Romany homeless people begging in the street!! Possibly through better education they could be helped off the street.

[aliferste]

Ooh Ooh.... before i go to work i thought i would show you this

"The size of the minority ethnic population was 4.6 million in 2001 or 7.9 per cent of the total population of the United Kingdom."
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=273

Originally Posted by aliferste

Ooh Ooh.... before i go to work i thought i would show you this

"The size of the minority ethnic population was 4.6 million in 2001 or 7.9 per cent of the total population of the United Kingdom."
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=273

I don't think anyone's contesting that fact. What we're talking about at the moment is, do ethnic minority groups commit a disproportionately high proportion of crimes in the UK? (including asylum seekers in that).

As I said, there are doubtless mitigating circumstances, but I don't think there is any doubt that the crime rate is higher among ethnic minorities. Do you disagree?

[kronas]

Originally Posted by towny

As I said, there are doubtless mitigating circumstances, but I don't think there is any doubt that the crime rate is higher among ethnic minorities. Do you disagree?

i do the majorty of the people in the uk are white am i right ?

so if there are crimes being commited by a black person i believe people will notice it more because of there black skin

anyway back to my point i dont believe there is a big problem in the black community with crime yes there are gangs of black youths etc in various areas of the uk but the same goes for white people as well

Originally Posted by kronas

i do the majorty of the people in the uk are white am i right ?

so if there are crimes being commited by a black person i believe people will notice it more because of there black skin

anyway back to my point i dont believe there is a big problem in the black community with crime yes there are gangs of black youths etc in various areas of the uk but the same goes for white people as well

Statistics aren't reported by absolute numbers, they're reported 'per 10,000 population', so you get a balanced picture. I'm having trouble with the ONS website search engine at the mo', so far the best I can link to is school exclusions by ethnic group, here:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBas...ank=1&Rank=144

from this you can see that in school year 2000-2001, for every 10,000 white kids at a UK school, 13 of them got expelled, but in a sample of the same size of black Carribbean kids, 38 of them got expelled.

So, it is a fact to say that 'proportionately, more black kids get expelled than white kids'.

In the same way, I believe it is a fact to say that proportionately more black people commit crime than white people, altho I've not hit the right page on the ONS site yet ...

Of course, in absolute terms the number of white people in prison is higher than the number of black people, because the population of the UK is about 92% white. But this figure on its own masks the problem. The is a bigger problem among certain ethnic minority groups (not all; note in the school exclusion figures that the rate is lower for asians than for whites). To try to gloss over the problem effectively bars us from finding a solution.