Reform UK's chronicles

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Russ

I wonder which box Dubai’s Tesco outlook this happened at at?

I thought somebody can't be accused of shoplifting until after they've left the shop.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Tripe. All those men in their mid-twenties and early thirties rocking up on The beach. Are not doctors or nurses or porters.

They are at best deliveroo drivers, at worst jihadists….in between just a burden on the state.

Most immigration is not people in small boats, that's a fraction of it. You need to look at the data, not Reform pontification.

There is a genuine trade-off which all parties face on immigration v economic growth and filling NHS roles. Lack of economic growth eventually feeds through into higher taxes.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Have a read here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin...R)%20in%202024.

We’re not in the EU.

---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Most immigration is not people in small boats, that's a fraction of it. You need to look at the data, not Reform pontification.

True, but it is something we should eliminate immediately. There should be “zero” Illegal immigration.

There is a genuine trade-off which all parties face on immigration v economic growth and filling NHS roles. Lack of economic growth eventually feeds through into higher taxes.

There is no economic growth, there hasn’t been for over a decade, not since the 2008 crash really.

It getting worse, we don’t need immigration for growth, and immigration has not provided any growth.

For growth you need lower taxes on businesses, less regulation on development and cheap energy………none of which we have now.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

We’re not in the EU.

You're making my point for me. We can't return unlawful migrants anymore because of Brexit. I shared the legislation which we previously used.

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

There is no economic growth, there hasn’t been for over a decade, not since the 2008 crash really.

It getting worse, we don’t need immigration for growth, and immigration has not provided any growth.

For growth you need lower taxes on businesses, less regulation on development and cheap energy………none of which we have now.

The GFC certainly gave us a hammering which has taken a long time to recover from. There has been growth though.

We'd all like lower taxes on everything but someone has to pay the bills but politicians being honest and asking taxpayers to stump on don't tend to get elected.

On planning, the current government at least is easing up development restrictions as we've seen with its support for airport expansion.

Energy prices were hammered by the Ukraine invasion but as we become more energy independent through renewables, nuclear and better storage facilities, it should start to come down. Joining the EU energy trading arrangements would help here too.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You're making my point for me. We can't return unlawful migrants anymore because of Brexit. I shared the legislation which we previously used.

We can….there is nothing stopping us from returning illegal immigrants to any country, if we so wish. Show me any law, domestic or international, that says we can’t.

Not the ECHR, which we should ditch anyway.

The GFC certainly gave us a hammering which has taken a long time to recover from. There has been growth though.

no there hasn’t.

0.1 here, -0.2 there, +0.2 again …….is not growth, it’s stagnation. Mad immigration has been used to provide the illusion of growth, but there has been no growth for nearly two decades.

We'd all like lower taxes on everything but someone has to pay the bills but politicians being honest and asking taxpayers to stump on don't tend to get elected.

Well there’s the point, wise men plant trees to provide the shade they know they’ll never sit under.

On planning, the current government at least is easing up development restrictions as we've seen with its support for airport expansion.

Bollocks, words, may never happen. If even given the green light I’ll probably be dead before Heathrow gets another runway. Planning power resides with the local councils, unless a national policy, such as permitted development rights, is implemented…..nothing changes.

Energy prices were hammered by the Ukraine invasion but as we become more energy independent through renewables, nuclear and better storage facilities, it should start to come down. Joining the EU energy trading arrangements would help here too.

You can have Net Zero, or you can have Growth…….not both.

We are not energy independent through renewables, if we were we wouldn’t have built 3 new cables between the U.K. and Norway, Denmark and Belgium in addition to the ones with France and Holland to import power from Europe.

Originally Posted by nomadking

I thought somebody can't be accused of shoplifting until after they've left the shop.

Apparently not.

.. you do not need to leave the shop first to be considered shoplifting; you can be charged with shoplifting even if you haven't left the store, as long as there is evidence that you are attempting to conceal items with the intent to steal them, such as by hiding goods in a bag or under your clothing.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

We can….there is nothing stopping us from returning illegal immigrants to any country, if we so wish. Show me any law, domestic or international, that says we can’t.

Not the ECHR, which we should ditch anyway.

We can't ditch the ECHR, repeating this Reform fantasy cannot not make it viable. The Good Friday agreement requires the ECHR to be part of the law in Northern Ireland. Leaving it violates the the Good Friday Agreement, causing issues for the peace settlement in Northern Ireland and the UK’s relationship with Ireland and the EU.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/lea...-human-rights/

You can't return illegal immigrants to France as the French would not permit the planes to land or boats into their territorial waters.

A bit more information here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyxeedx40d8o

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

We can't ditch the ECHR, repeating this Reform fantasy cannot not make it viable. The Good Friday agreement requires the ECHR to be part of the law in Northern Ireland. Leaving it violates the the Good Friday Agreement, causing issues for the peace settlement in Northern Ireland and the UK’s relationship with Ireland and the EU.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/lea...-human-rights/

We can, I didn't say it would be easy and that it would cause issues elsewhere, but we are a sovereign nation.

You can't return illegal immigrants to France as the French would not permit the planes to land or boats into their territorial waters.

A bit more information here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyxeedx40d8o

Who said anything about returning them to France? they're not French.

We are sovereign and we could leave the ECHR. Whether it’s a good idea is another matter. Given the select company it would put us in, on the whole I think not.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

We are sovereign and we could leave the ECHR. Whether it’s a good idea is another matter. Given the select company it would put us in, on the whole I think not.

Maybe so, but you have to question its validity when faced up against headlines like this, and this is just the latest one. You could dig up lots of cases where people are gaming the system and getting away with it.

It is clearly not fit for purpose.

https://europeanconservative.com/art...ensory-issues/

[thenry]

Chicken nuggets? Is that akin to the certain racial gang after just white young females? Teach them young I say! Bravo.

Excuse my outlandish comments. Before someone gets offended!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Pierre

We can….there is nothing stopping us from returning illegal immigrants to any country if we so wish.

Hell has just frozen over. You've made a point I actually agree with.

The problem however is whereas we certainly can return illegals to any country we want, said country is under no obligation to accept them or even allow the plane to land.

Part of Bullshitting Boris' "Oven ready deal" was to omit any requirement for countries to accept people we send them.

[Mr K]

Send them to the Isle of Man.They'd soon be taking the boats back the other way.

Originally Posted by Russ

Hell has just frozen over. You've made a point I actually agree with.

The problem however is whereas we certainly can return illegals to any country we want, said country is under no obligation to accept them or even allow the plane to land.

Part of Bullshitting Boris' "Oven ready deal" was to omit any requirement for countries to accept people we send them.

You are speaking my language.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Maggy

You are speaking my language.

I think some on here would argue that we can technically push them off of a plane providing we give them parachutes! There's always the geeky what's technically possible v the real trade-offs and implications of doing this in the real world!