The gender ideology thread

Originally Posted by ianch99

Is this you?

Trans people are mentally ill it seems. I suspect that they may disagree with you.

If you could demonstrate where I coupled my discussion of mental ill-health with a perjorative judgment against same, that would be helpful. (To help get you started: the only time the word ‘freak’ has been used on Cable Forum in any context in the last 6 months, was by you, yesterday).

What is ideologically driven is the anti-Trans backlash, especially in the US where the sponsorship of Trump by the Evangelical right underwrites a lot of the recent policy changes.

… in the US, where the erosion of women’s rights to include trans-identifying males, and where the invasive medical treatment of children, has gone far further than it has in the UK. In some state and federal instances, laws have already been changed to favour trans activists. The push-back there is necessarily of a different nature than here.

In the UK, the push back against trans dogma has been driven by insistence that public bodies respect the law as it already stands vis a vis acceptance that sex is a protected characteristic under EA 2010, and that changing/toilet facilities segregated by sex are a requirement of the Workplace Reg’s 1992; that universities have a legal obligation to preserve and protect free speech; and by a very thorough literature review of trans medical issues by Dr Hillary Cass. Nothing that is happening here is contingent on what is happening in the USA. In fact, every one of the aspects I have listed here has been tested in a UK court or at tribunal (or is presently being heard), in cases that began long before Trump took office.

That said, in Trump’s defence of women’s rights I’d simply observe that even a broken clock is right twice a day. Even if Trump’s intervention in this area is merely transactional, he is able to exploit it because the Dems have thoroughly compromised themselves on what ought to be an uncontroversial issue. Women ought to have the right to protected safe spaces (this includes sporting categories). No ifs, no buts, and definitely no coconuts.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Is this you?



Trans people are mentally ill it seems. I suspect that they may disagree with you.

What is ideologically driven is the anti-Trans backlash, especially in the US where the sponsorship of Trump by the Evangelical right underwrites a lot of the recent policy changes.

As someone who has a mental illness I can tell you categorically for a fact denial is one of the most apparent symptoms and acceptance of the issue the first step to recovery

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Is this you?



Trans people are mentally ill it seems. I suspect that they may disagree with you.

What is ideologically driven is the anti-Trans backlash, especially in the US where the sponsorship of Trump by the Evangelical right underwrites a lot of the recent policy changes.

You seem to have pivoted away from "backlash" that matters.
To reiterate, what matters is the intrusion into women's safe spaces (changing rooms, toilets, hospital wards) made by biological males posing as women.

The goings on the in the USA are a diversion.

[Jaymoss]

TBH I think those who can not see the wood for the trees and accept this without question as almost as deluded as the guys who get themselves butchered

If I went to the doctor and said I do not think my left arm belongs to me and it causing me severe distress I want it cut off . What do you think the diagnosis would be?

That was directed at those with opposing views to me btw hahaa

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

TBH I think those who can not see the wood for the trees and accept this without question as almost as deluded as the guys who get themselves butchered

If I went to the doctor and said I do not think my left arm belongs to me and it causing me severe distress I want it cut off . What do you think the diagnosis would be?

That was directed at those with opposing views to me btw hahaa

You'd be diagnosed as a right handed "neo-Fascist racist sociopath". Why did I say that? Of course, you are nothing of the sort.

[Jaymoss]

Just for reference as I may be coming across as unkind. I have no issue with anyone being who they want to be. I have issue with them and as a later result society trying to force me to accept it as normal and those with the issues to be able to use it to attempt to garner some power over me

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

I have no issue with anyone being who they want to be. I have issue with them and as a later result society trying to force me to accept it as normal

Welcome to the world of Pride.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Paul

Welcome to the world of Pride.

Yeah you are right :-)

With regards to public attitudes to political transvestism and related issues, I’ve been trying to find this again for a while, since seeing someone post it on the twitters.

A plurality of British people (the ‘agrees’ were the single biggest group but less than 50% of the sample) agree that an individual should have the right to personally identify with a gender other than what they were born as - but that, literally, is the extent of it. The pubic disagrees with every other statement flowing out from that in terms of rights to spaces, participation, legal accommodations etc.

[Jaymoss]

Well in the main that is encouraging. Imagine what that is going to look like in 50 years. Glad I will be long dead I guess

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Well in the main that is encouraging. Imagine what that is going to look like in 50 years. Glad I will be long dead I guess

It’s a common error to assume that teens and young adults maintain the same social attitudes as they grow older. Real life eventually begins to have a say. Our young people tend to get their politics, or whatever passes for it, on TikTok, where gender madness is still at its height. But they do tend to grow out of their wide-eyed blinkered idealism.

There is a companion graph, which I’ll post when I find it again, which summarises the same Yougov survey taken a few years ago, in which a lot more of it was green. The direction of travel is going the right way, have no fear of that. Peak insanity probably passed a couple of years ago, and the many court and tribunal cases flooding the courts now are the result of the tide turning and people deciding they’re no longer putting up with illegal activist HR policies in their workplaces.

[Russ]

I've generally stayed away from this thread because I find it so polarising. There is no happy medium to suit people as attitudes seem so black-and-white. For example, generally speaking if you express misgivings over the idea of male-to-female trans people using the female changing rooms or toilets you're automatically a bigot. However, if you're open to the idea, then often you're considered a sex-crime 'enabler' or supporter of some oppressive regime that forces the use of pronouns and acceptance on people.

I don't even know where I stand on this. I have a very good friend of 35 years who, up until 20 years ago, was known as Darren. He confided in me about his wanting to transition in to a woman and is now known as Danielle. In that time she (as I choose to say, it has never been requested) has undergone full physical transition.

Do I think male-to-female trans people should be allowed to use female changing facilities etc? I am very uncomfortable with that idea. I'd hazard a guess that the number of male-to-female TGs who use their status to commit sex crimes is very low, but as we all know, one is one too many. I just try to imagine my daughter in her pre-teen days using a public toilet and watching male-to-female going in after her.

Not happening on my watch.

However, Danielle is and always has been a very good friend to me. She has never requested I use the female pronoun, I choose to out of kindness to my friend. It's just a change of one word and neither harms or costs me anything.

This is an issue that's not going away, and I can't ever see it doing so.

Until relatively recently I’d have erred on the side of using preferred pronouns on the basis that it was no skin off my nose. Unfortunately trans issues have had something of a ratchet effect over the past 10 years where one thing is granted and they move on to the next. Using pronouns in order to #BeKind is what is enabling some to argue that we now need to let them in women’s safe spaces in order to #BeKind because we have already surrendered the argument that they are a “she”, hence th e next step is logical.

In multiple cases where women have complained they have been disciplined at work and several of those cases have resulted in industrial tribunals. The ones that go to full public hearings never end well for trans activism because trans activists like to keep insisting that the law is on their side, right up to the point when a judge tells them it isn’t.

Final point, I will have to dig out the figures but I’m fairly sure that in the UK, there are a disproportionately high number of trans-identifying males amongst those incarcerated for sex crimes. The trans issue is complex and by no means all of them are perverts (just the same as by no means all of them are suffering a psychological condition), but a subset of them certainly are.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Chris

Final point, I will have to dig out the figures but I’m fairly sure that in the UK, there are a disproportionately high number of trans-identifying males amongst those incarcerated for sex crimes

Oh I wasn’t aware of that. It only serves to muddy the waters even more.

[Pierre]

I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it on here before, but I was around all this before it became fashionable. In 1990 I shared a house with a “trans-sexual”….(and two other men). Michael, who was pre-op and going through the process.

It was simple, he would dress as a man and I would call him Michael. On the days he dressed in women’s cloths, I would call him Michelle.

It was fine, it was all very amenable but he was a bit highly strung…to be polite.

He once came home in tears because he was thrown out of a night club for being in the women’s toilets……….can you imagine if that happened now.

The problem then, is the problem now. He looked and acted like a very camp gay man….and not a woman.

Back in the day it was clear.

We had Trans-sexuals, men who wanted to be women and will do the surgery to get there.

And Trans-vestites , men that wanted to be their mother.

Drag queens, gay men for which just being camp wasn’t enough.

And Auto gyno-Philes (to be fair they weren’t called that then). Men that want to dress in women’s clothing because they get a sexual kick out of it and by people looking at them, and there’s nothing stopping them getting a sexual kick assaulting women.

And now all these variants are now just called “Trans”, and we’re expected to treat them all the same.

This is the problem.

A trans-sexual just wanting to live their lives are most likely not a danger to women or women’s spaces. I wouldn’t say the same for some AGP’s

The trans in women’s sports, could come under a whole new category, I think the term is “cheat”