Christians arrested for defending their beliefs - Page 8

Xaccers · 21-09-2009, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMG

Yea, spot on.

It is offensive, but in my view, not to the same extent.

My loyalty, is to my family & my country. Not to religion, or any other group. The men who defend our country are the finest people we have. They put their lives in danger so we can sleep at night. I hold no other group in higher esteem. When anyone, insults our forces, they insult me. I have been there & worn the T shirt out. Good men, fine men, have died for us, all of us, & we should acknowledge that, & anyone who openly insults our forces on the streets should be shipped off to a third world country, to see what happens to people, who dont have the right to free expression.

The law doesn't give a grading on offence.
Under section 5 the court will have to decide if the comments the hoteliers came out with are insulting.
We unfortunately do not have all the facts to hand, so it's hard to say if the court will go one way or another.
I'd be suprised if they're found guilty, or if they are that they're given much of a punishment.

Saaf_laandon_mo · 21-09-2009, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMG

Yea, spot on.

It is offensive, but in my view, not to the same extent.

My loyalty, is to my family & my country. Not to religion, or any other group. The men who defend our country are the finest people we have. They put their lives in danger so we can sleep at night. I hold no other group in higher esteem. When anyone, insults our forces, they insult me. I have been there & worn the T shirt out. Good men, fine men, have died for us, all of us, & we should acknowledge that, & anyone who openly insults our forces on the streets should be shipped off to a third world country, to see what happens to people, who dont have the right to free expression.

Are you saying that they should have their right of freedom to speech removed? For expressing their freedom to speech in the first place?

And would the same be applied to non muslims, born and bread in this country who I have witnessed insulting British troops on quite a few Stop the War Marches I have been on.

By the way the muslims that demonstrated in Luton - they don't represent me or the majority of muslims I know. There are ways to demonstrate and to speak out against things. At a home coming parade is not one of them.

Jimmy-J · 21-09-2009, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Or as my Nan used to say 'if you can't say summat nice,say nothing at all'.

And as my Granddad used to say "Don't ever be afraid of speaking your mind"

**Maggy** · 21-09-2009, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Product 13

And as my Granddad used to say "Don't ever be afraid of speaking your mind"

Yep and there is speaking your mind with respect for others and then there is speaking your mind to insult others.

SMG · 21-09-2009, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Are you saying that they should have their right of freedom to speech removed? For expressing their freedom to speech in the first place?

And would the same be applied to non muslims, born and bread in this country who I have witnessed insulting British troops on quite a few Stop the War Marches I have been on.

By the way the muslims that demonstrated in Luton - they don't represent me or the majority of muslims I know. There are ways to demonstrate and to speak out against things. At a home coming parade is not one of them.

As I stated in post 102, & the same applies to anyone. Its one thing to demonstrate, quite another to call soldiers, "Murderers". Dont you agree?

Saaf_laandon_mo · 21-09-2009, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMG

As I stated in post 102, & the same applies to anyone. Its one thing to demonstrate, quite another to call soldiers, "Murderers". Dont you agree?

I personally don't agree with the war in Afganistan or the presence of British troops in Iraq.

My demonstrations (via organised marches) have never been against individual soldiers but against the governments that have sent them to fight.

I would never abuse a soldier be it at a home coming parade or in a demonstration.

Pierre · 21-09-2009, 15:04

The old free speech debate - - again.......

It's not difficult to understand.

You are entitled to an opinion, and you are entitled to express that opinion.

But it's not a black and white issue, you must use common sense and civility when expressing that opinion.

It is perfectly OK to offend, and insult (Winston Churchill being a master).

But it's not ok to incite, abuse, etc.

I am perfectly within my rights to say that I do not agree with many of the interpretations of Islam, and that I find some of the actions of islamic states abhorrent.

I could walk round with a placard that said "Put an end to islamic femail circumcision now"
Outside a mosque, and be perfectly within my rights of free speech.

But what I couldn't do is walk round with a placard saying "Mohammed is the devil and all muslims are evil"

Similarly, muslims or anyone else, are entitled to have "stop the war" banners, even at repatriation ceremonies - most of the families there would agree the sentiment I'm sure.

But they are not allowed to call the soldiers murderers etc.

It's common sense.

SMG · 21-09-2009, 15:41

Saaf_laandon_mo,

You are free to demonstrate as long as you wish, should you want troops out, demonstrate against the Government, thats your right. As to your last paragraph, thank you.

Pierre.

You put it so much better than me. Why didn`t you post 10 laps ago & save me the trouble.

There is nothing more heartwarming than to parade in front of a public, who appreciates what your doing.

Jimmy-J · 21-09-2009, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Yep and there is speaking your mind with respect for others and then there is speaking your mind to insult others.

I'll stick with speaking my mind for now, that way people will know exactly where I stand. And you can just shut up! If that's what you prefer.

Russ · 21-09-2009, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Product 13

I'll stick with speaking my mind for now, that way people will know exactly where I stand. And you can just shut up! If that's what you prefer.

There's no issues with you or anyone speaking their mind as long as it's within the confines of whatever law governs where you are whether it's out on the street or on an internet forum.

**Maggy** · 21-09-2009, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Product 13

I'll stick with speaking my mind for now, that way people will know exactly where I stand. And you can just shut up! If that's what you prefer.

Politeness costs nothing even if you do disagree with someone.Name calling means you are losing the argument...

**Hugh** · 21-09-2009, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Politeness costs nothing even if you do disagree with someone.Name calling means you are losing the argument...

Which would, obviously, never happen on CF - no ad hominem attacks here!

Agree to disagree.

Gary L · 22-09-2009, 12:11

Religion is evil. if you upset someone about their beliefs, there's a good chance they'll kill you for it.

We need God to give us a sign that we're all being ridiculous.

Russ · 22-09-2009, 12:13

And in time-honoured tradition, just as peace descends on this type of thread, the armchair experts arrive to tell us, totally off-topic, that they disagree with religion and how wrong it is.

TheDaddy · 22-09-2009, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Religion is evil. if you upset someone about their beliefs, there's a good chance they'll kill you for it.

I'd say there was a better chance that they'd forgive you....