Smoking in public places to be banned

[xaq141175]

the costs to the NHS is about £1.5 billion a year due to smoking related illness's ... but this does not include the costs to familys or society due to the illness's. no doubt that would take it up much higher.

[zovat]

Originally Posted by towny

Great, then I say let them poison themselves if they (smokers) are doing the NHS such a service.

I think there is a need to formalise some of the voluntary bans that have appeared in recent years - on trains, in cinemas, and the like - but I would favour tough legislation forcing 'venue' owners to make proper provision of smoking and non-smoking areas over an outright ban. There's a lot you can do to control air-flow with modern air conditioning and the like.

Glad to se we agree on some parts of this then Towny .

As I said earlier - people should have a choice, and landlords/owners should do what their clientele would prefer.
I no longer smoke, but I have no issues with sitting in a smokers area in a pub with my mates who still do, but my wife cannot take the smokey atmosphere, so I end up having to move between the two areas. Proper ventilation, such as I have experienced in other countries, would solve a lot of the issues. (IMO as always)

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Graham dont go on about peoples right of choice then say its OK to deny smokers their choice.

If YOU dont like it YOU go elsewhere. simple fact really and probably the most pleasing all round.

As I keep on pointing out (and will do until some people start paying attention to the fact!) Rights come with Responsibilities!

Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose.

Your right to act in an antisocial manner ends when it affects other people.

Tell you what, I'll move into the house next to you, play my stereo loud, have parties all hours of the day and night. I'll buy a couple of dogs and let them bark all day long, light bonfires and let the smoke blow over your garden when you're trying to enjoy it.

"If YOU dont like it YOU go elsewhere. simple fact really"

So you'd be happy to move out of your house because of *my* behaviour???

Originally Posted by zovat

but not as harmful as driving a car... Yet you are not insisiting that people stop driving their car wherever you want to be...

Well actually I'm very much in favour of ZEV's (Zero Emission Vehicles) and the increasing use of public transport, bicycles etc rather than private vehicles but that's somewhat different (ie expensive) from getting people to give up smoking.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by towny

Great, then I say let them poison themselves if they (smokers) are doing the NHS such a service.

This is not meant cynically, but the benefits may actually be even higher. As smokers tend to die younger, they are less likely to spend years in nursing homes because of ailments related to old age. I can't put a figure on this, (or vouch for its validity), but I've seen it suggested that smokers are cheaper on the healthcare system than non-smokers as a result of dying younger.

Originally Posted by danielf

I've seen it suggested that smokers are cheaper on the healthcare system than non-smokers as a result of dying younger.

<cynic> So is shooting anyone over the age of 50*</cynic>

*NB this is subject to revision in just over 10 years time...!

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Graham

<cynic> So is shooting anyone over the age of 50*</cynic>

*NB this is subject to revision in just over 10 years time...!

Seeing that people brought up the cost/revenue side of smoking, I think it's only fair to bring this up... It's a valid point isn't it?

[Nikko]

OK I have let this thread go over 100 posts.

I think the simplest solution to smoking in public places, is to keep those anti-smoking members of the public away.

FFS they look like the chorus line to the Mikado - pale faces, squinty eyes, fan waving girlies of ill repute.

Why do they not keep their asthmatic sickly kin away from the general throng? Why do they insist on attempting to impose their self-righteous clean air fantasies in pubs where they inevitably clog up the bar, order a perrier water, moan about the price whilst delaying 7 proper rounds and are then sickened because the (corporation pop tap water based) ice is unavailable?

Why do they not just stay at home and breathe in their own dust mites and the deisel fumes off the by-pass?

[nate]

I wouldn't object to a ban. And I'm a smoker.

The only thing that keeps me smoking is going out, and going to work.
If I couldn't smoke in those places (although I do have to smoke outside in work, on my own time), I'd probably give up.

I would never use the NHS for illness of my own ill-given habits, ie. if i ever had to go to hospital for something to do with my smoking, I'd elect to go private, but I know that not everyone has the opportunity to do this, it's just my own principal. Why should I use the NHS for something that I could have avoided so easily? I may not use the NHS much, if at all, but I don't believe in taking it for all that I'm entitled to, just because I haven't in the past.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by nate

I would never use the NHS for illness of my own ill-given habits, ie. if i ever had to go to hospital for something to do with my smoking, I'd elect to go private, but I know that not everyone has the opportunity to do this, it's just my own principal.

Same for me, however, my reasons for not relying on the NHS are purely out of fear, in the last 3 months while visiting someone in hospital I've heard about people coming in for routine ops and leaving in a casket, I've seen what could only be described as pig swill served to the patients, nursing staff who mistreat patients and above all, doctors who have absolutely NO clue as to what they're doing (but this is all for another thread).

[SMHarman]

However you are ultimately taking time from consultants that generally work for both the NHS and Privately. You would need to see your NHS GP for a referal (I suppose you could see a private GP, but it is likely to be your NHS GP).

BUPA and the like will soon wriggle and squirm when you start trying to claim for a long term health problem like this

http://www.givingupsmoking.co.uk/ima...ads/janice.mpg

I'll have to agree with you that the NHS is crap though, Mrs H needed an ultrasound and consultant appointment urgently on a Tuesday, the earliest the NHS could do it, the following Friday. BUPA, or £180 from our own pocked if they did not pay up - 5pm.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Same for me, however, my reasons for not relying on the NHS are purely out of fear, in the last 3 months while visiting someone in hospital I've heard about people coming in for routine ops and leaving in a casket, I've seen what could only be described as pig swill served to the patients, nursing staff who mistreat patients and above all, doctors who have absolutely NO clue as to what they're doing (but this is all for another thread).

Considering my contributions towards the Billions of pounds of tobacco duty that goes to fund the NHS, I personally think I have the right to get treatment fro the NHS any time I like.

Originally Posted by Graham

As I keep on pointing out (and will do until some people start paying attention to the fact!) Rights come with Responsibilities!

Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose.

Your right to act in an antisocial manner ends when it affects other people.

Tell you what, I'll move into the house next to you, play my stereo loud, have parties all hours of the day and night. I'll buy a couple of dogs and let them bark all day long, light bonfires and let the smoke blow over your garden when you're trying to enjoy it.

"If YOU dont like it YOU go elsewhere. simple fact really"

So you'd be happy to move out of your house because of *my* behaviour???

What music do you like? Seeing as I already have this problem on 3 sides . One side the guy is a DJ in LEEDS and he arrives home at like 4am and keeps DJ'ing. Other side is a person I never see but constantly hear, and opposite theres a guy that plays his music loud enough for me to hear the words across the street through closed windows and doors, and if he isnt doing this, he is revving his speedboat engine up for no apparent reason.

I cant say I'd notice really

But in all seriousness yes you do have a point, but walking into a pub knowing people are certainly going to be smoking in there and then insisting on them leaving is not a responsible attitude, its a confrontational one.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Considering my contributions towards the Billions of pounds of tobacco duty that goes to fund the NHS, I personally think I have the right to get treatment fro the NHS any time I like.

I agree, I just wouldn't trust an NHS surgeon to tie his shoes properly let alone perform any critical work on my lungs.

Originally Posted by Nikko

OK I have let this thread go over 100 posts.

Gosh, thank you, that's so kind of you...!

I think the simplest solution to smoking in public places, is to keep those anti-smoking members of the public away.

And after 100 posts, you jump in with both feet with a comment like this that has already been *repeatedly* addressed...!