[merged] Realplayer 10

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by Bifta

I've never noticed any slow-down with Photoshop 8. Linux, customisable? No doubt about that, but who on earth wants to configure an operating system from the command line? Not sure what you mean about forwarding ports, I do that with my router, which admittedly probably has a linux kernal but few people use a windows machine as a router, unless they use ISA .. and that's a piece of p*ss to configure.

Exactly... People are not interested in that crap. The same thing that makes Linux great for nerds and geeks is what makes it crap for the consumer, who just so happens to be 99% of the market.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Exactly... People are not interested in that crap. The same thing that makes Linux great for nerds and geeks is what makes it crap for the consumer, who just so happens to be 99% of the market.

Also, not sure why people are moaning about having WMP installed with Windows, I and probably millions of others would much rather have it installed than have to download something to watch video files, play music etc, what if they have no internet connection? Are you going to troop up to PC world and hunt down a copy of *gag* Quicktime?

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by towny

I don't claim ownership of them except in the way I am entitled, as a voter in a democratic society, to have a say in how things are done here. You have the same privilege

Thank you towny, this is basically what I have been trying to put across. My right to, as Jerrek puts it, 'tell' MS or any other company how I believe they should behave comes from my being an individual in a world of individuals that interact through their beliefs and opinions. Anybody elses opinions are equally as valid and is through consensus (such as the democratic process) that the actual way forward is found. It may as well be asked what right does an atom have to influence the paths of the atoms around it.

Originally Posted by towny

Linux is an operating system kernel, normally suurounded by GNU tools, even though the GNU project has long been developing a kernel of its own. Then you can choose from a range of GUIs to sit on top of it all. So anyone who uses Linux has already enjoyed far more free choice than they would be permitted by Microsoft.

Plus there is the choice of ntfs in the kernel

Originally Posted by Jerrek

I'm sorry. You can't possibly claim to want to protect liberties and freedoms and in the same breath advocate severe and drastic restrictions.

Well it's a good job that I didn't then isn't it? If you'll look more closely at what I said, I support the maximum amount of liberty that supports everyone. Running a business influences the lives of others, so in those cases community opinion matters.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

*shrug* Thats fine, as long as you realize then that you're basically a socialist, not someone that advocates free enterprise and capitalism

You make it sound like a bad thing, and I know that from your perspective it is. I already acknowledge that I am a socialist, I do not advocate capitalism, from my perspective it is the bad thing. Can you not see that their are no absolutes here, that it is only opinion that matters. I am not trying to sway you to my perspective, I am not trying to rubbish yours, I am merely putting across my personal belief in an open discussion. So if you cannot stomach my opinions, don't read them. I am always open to persuasion, if you feel it is worth doing so ('saving my soul') then do so, but shouting, quoting from sources whose philosophies are quite alien to my own (Ms Rand) and rubbishing my opinions are not the way to go about it.

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Also, not sure why people are moaning about having WMP installed with Windows, I and probably millions of others would much rather have it installed than have to download something to watch video files, play music etc, what if they have no internet connection? Are you going to troop up to PC world and hunt down a copy of *gag* Quicktime?

It is supposedly anti-competitive because it forces competition to improve their products.

Do you think that Real would have a ****ty base as it is if their software wasn't the utter crap it is? Microsoft is pushing hard for them to improve it, and they don't like it.

[Bifta]

I've tried Real Player and I've tried Quicktime .. I found them both to be awful, the only 2 media players I've ever liked using have been WMP closely followed by Winamp.

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by philip.j.fry

You make it sound like a bad thing, and I know that from your perspective it is.

so? You make capitalism sound like a bad thing. If socialism was a good thing, don't you think I'll be all over it.

The fact of the matter is, socialism is poison to anyone that wants to set up shop. This weekend I'll be busy drawing up my second Articles of Incorporation. A one man company. Does that mean I'm evil, because you said companies are an evil necessity?

I already acknowledge that I am a socialist, I do not advocate capitalism, from my perspective it is the bad thing. Can you not see that their are no absolutes here, that it is only opinion that matters.

You have the right to your opinion, sir, just like I have a right to mine. Just one thing: hands off my companies. They are not yours. No matter how much you think my creation, work, labor, money, and time is yours, it isn't.

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by Bifta

I've tried Real Player and I've tried Quicktime .. I found them both to be awful, the only 2 media players I've ever liked using have been WMP closely followed by Winamp.

And it is funny that with all Microsoft's "anti-competitive" practices, Winamp is still the best mp3 player (for me), and for millions of other people.

[Defiant]

Originally Posted by Bifta

I've tried Real Player and I've tried Quicktime .. I found them both to be awful, the only 2 media players I've ever liked using have been WMP closely followed by Winamp.

Well I must be one of the majority again. I find Mediaplayer and Quicktime to be two of the best product's on the market and I'm glad too mediaplayer is included. If is wasn't website's would be using allot more different player's than they do now. I for one dont wont to have to download a different player everytime I wont to check out a clip or something.

The other player I use allot mainly for movies is PowerDvd

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

There you go. Then, if the EU prohibits Microsoft from shipping Media Player with Windows, they are prohibiting Microsft from improving their product. So my original statement stands. You're advocating competition, yet you're preventing a company from improving its product. Yet you're not doing it to other companies, such as Apple with QuickTime.

Windows is an operating system not a media player. To improve an operating system would be tweaking code and interface changing.

I wondered how long till communism would come into this

Free enterprise is only in the interests of the public when there is competition, for competition there needs to be a chance of victory, after victory there is no competition. The system breaks down.

But then you have the anti-trust laws and regulation, so this removes any hope of victory, complacency and price fixing begin and the system breaks down again.

Nothing is perfect, American capitalism is no exception.

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

so? You make capitalism sound like a bad thing. If socialism was a good thing, don't you think I'll be all over it.

Again, no distinction between absolutes and your opinion. If you thought socialism was a good thing you'd be all over it.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

The fact of the matter is, socialism is poison to anyone that wants to set up shop. This weekend I'll be busy drawing up my second Articles of Incorporation. A one man company. Does that mean I'm evil, because you said companies are an evil necessity?

From my perspective, I see a clear distinction between company and person, I'm sure you can see that I wouldn't/don't consider you evil.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

You have the right to your opinion, sir, just like I have a right to mine. Just one thing: hands off my companies. They are not yours. No matter how much you think my creation, work, labor, money, and time is yours, it isn't.

I wouldn't attempt to force my opinion on you and you're lucky that the consensus of opinion swings in your favour, and because that is what I believe I don't take issue you setting up your company, but likewise if consensus opinion swung in my favour then you woud have to live with it...or try to swing opinion back. In any case I as an individual, wouldn't take anything from you because in my utopia, you would give everything freely.

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by Bifta

I've tried Real Player and I've tried Quicktime .. I found them both to be awful, the only 2 media players I've ever liked using have been WMP closely followed by Winamp.

Gosh, back on topic

I can't remember which version of WMP it was, it was the one that came with win98, but that was the best version because it had just a very simple interface and didn't do annoying things like create a My Music folder in your home directory everytime it loaded.
Quicktime was good, but the registration reminder and upgrade notice became very wearing. Realplayer was always just awful.

Winamp v2.x was of course, damn near as perfect I use xmms now, which is a clone for X.

The best media player that I have used has to be Xine, plays just about every file format included qt, rm and wmv.

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by downquark1

Windows is an operating system not a media player. To improve an operating system would be tweaking code and interface changing.

Who said that Windows is only an operating system? Are you, again, saying that Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to improve their products? Why don't you just pass a law outlawing improvements to products?

Free enterprise is only in the interests of the public when there is competition, for competition there needs to be a chance of victory, after victory there is no competition. The system breaks down.

200 years of history in the U.S. says different. However, a mere 80 years of socialism collapsed several countries. You have no proof of what you're saying.

Nothing is perfect, American capitalism is no exception.

What is "American" capitalism?

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by philip.j.fry

From my perspective, I see a clear distinction between company and person, I'm sure you can see that I wouldn't/don't consider you evil.

But you consider my work evil, right?

I wouldn't attempt to force my opinion on you and you're lucky that the consensus of opinion swings in your favour, and because that is what I believe I don't take issue you setting up your company, but likewise if consensus opinion swung in my favour then you woud have to live with it...or try to swing opinion back. In any case I as an individual, wouldn't take anything from you because in my utopia, you would give everything freely.

So you think it is right that if the majority of people advocate that murdering senior citizens should be legal, it should be legal?

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by philip.j.fry

Gosh, back on topic

I can't remember which version of WMP it was, it was the one that came with win98, but that was the best version because it had just a very simple interface and didn't do annoying things like create a My Music folder in your home directory everytime it loaded.
Quicktime was good, but the registration reminder and upgrade notice became very wearing. Realplayer was always just awful.

Winamp v2.x was of course, damn near as perfect I use xmms now, which is a clone for X.

The best media player that I have used has to be Xine, plays just about every file format included qt, rm and wmv.

Hmm, so much for competition breaking down. I thought you implied there was no alternatives to Windows Media Player...

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

200 years of history in the U.S. says different. However, a mere 80 years of socialism collapsed several countries. You have no proof of what you're saying.

Why has your government introduced anti-trust laws, the previous administration was almost ready to dismantle microsoft. That doesn't sound like free enterprise to me.

Unless you want to start calling democrats, communists now