Britain outside the EU

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Time to renounce the Treaty.

So we did agree to this?

So that would mean the EU would be able to take the U.K. to court ?

Surely this hardly makes us look good in front of other potential trade partners if we reneg on our obligations

[1andrew1]

Act in haste, repent at your leisure. Sign anything as long as the election is won.

Brexit: UK government knew NI Protocol 'was a bad deal'

Theresa May's former chief of staff is "pretty sure it's not true" that the government underestimated the impact of the NI Protocol when it agreed to it.

The protocol is the part of the Brexit deal that creates a trade border between Northern Ireland and GB.

Brexit Minister Lord Frost wrote at the weekend that the UK had "underestimated the effect of the protocol on goods movements to Northern Ireland".

But Lord Barwell said Boris Johnson's government "knew it was a bad deal".

They "agreed it to get Brexit done", he argued.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57382239

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Act in haste, repent at your leisure. Sign anything as long as the election is won.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57382239

Well, potentially yes. Keeping Corbyn out was important.

But getting Brexit done was badly done because silly terms were agreed instead of just walking away. We should have done that from day 1 instead of letting the EU dictate the process.

Unless the EU gets pragmatic instead of legalistic, we should aim to walk away.

So, in summary, we signed a treaty to a self-imposed timescale, are now regretting it because it’s causing issues, and the suggestion is we abrogate the treaty?

Meanwhile, at the same time, we are rushing through trade treaties with future prospective partners - how will this look to them?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Meanwhile, at the same time, we are rushing through trade treaties with future prospective partners - how will this look to them?

Wonder if those rushed treaties will be as poor as the rushed NI protocol?

---------- Post added at 23:45 ---------- Previous post was at 23:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Well, potentially yes. Keeping Corbyn out was important.

That was never going to happen whoever Corbyn was up against - Cameron, May or BoJo.

---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 23:45 ----------

Good explainer from the Beeb.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-53724381

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think you're right. As a reporter in Brussels, Boris Johnson made his name with well-crafted stories on straight bananas that bent the truth. So he knows how to play the game well here

Really, I thought he made his name as a reporter by getting sacked for telling lies

---------- Post added at 00:09 ---------- Previous post was at 00:05 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Time to renounce the Treaty.

Great so we're oath breakers now, this the brexit dividend I keep hearing about, that we can no longer be trusted

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Great so we're oath breakers now, this the brexit dividend I keep hearing about, that we can no longer be trusted

Remember they're the enemy! It's as if some people can't accept the war ended more than 75 years ago .

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Time to renounce the Treaty.

Treaties - don't forget this protocol was put in place to help preserve the Good Friday Agreement, keeping the border open between the North and the Republic.

Doesn't bode well for future treaties if we walked away from this one after 6 months. If I was a negotiator for another country trying to set up a treaty with the UK, I would put in some tough break clauses right now.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Treaties - don't forget this protocol was put in place to help preserve the Good Friday Agreement, keeping the border open between the North and the Republic.

Doesn't bode well for future treaties if we walked away from this one after 6 months. If I was a negotiator for another country trying to set up a treaty with the UK, I would put in some tough break clauses right now.

It was a big mistake for the Guvmin to allow the EU to dictate our internal affairs. Any decision to close the Irish border would have been taken by the EU and they + Ireland should have been left to stew in that.

Your second point is, of course, perfectly correct. The UK is caught on the horns of a failure of its own making. Nevertheless, the matter needs to be resolved in a way that allows British sausages into NI. Equivalence is the answer and that is an EU decision.

[Carth]

Question is . . . do the people of NI want English sausages or are they quite happy with the EU ones?

Is there a mori poll anywhere?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Carth

Question is . . . do the people of NI want English sausages or are they quite happy with the EU ones?

Is there a mori poll anywhere?

There's too much meat in EU sausages - not enough breadcrumb/sawdust.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It was a big mistake for the Guvmin to allow the EU to dictate our internal affairs. Any decision to close the Irish border would have been taken by the EU and they + Ireland should have been left to stew in that.

Your second point is, of course, perfectly correct. The UK is caught on the horns of a failure of its own making. Nevertheless, the matter needs to be resolved in a way that allows British sausages into NI. Equivalence is the answer and that is an EU decision.

From what I've read and understand (but i could be wrong) no other non EU countries are allowed to import chilled meat products into the EU.

We have equivalence, just with other non EU members.

Seems to be that some people think that because we were members of the EU that we should somehow be more equal than other non EU countries

[Sephiroth]

We are more equal in the sense that our standards are aligned. They should grant us equivalence.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It was a big mistake for the Guvmin to allow the EU to dictate our internal affairs. Any decision to close the Irish border would have been taken by the EU and they + Ireland should have been left to stew in that.

Your second point is, of course, perfectly correct. The UK is caught on the horns of a failure of its own making. Nevertheless, the matter needs to be resolved in a way that allows British sausages into NI. Equivalence is the answer and that is an EU decision.

I would imagine that some kind of equivalence agreement will be the end result of all this. As far as I can see, it's the depth of equivalence that might be the sticking point. If it were as simple as the UK SPS standards are equivalent to EU ones, that's all good until one side or the other changes standards. There's a fine political line between agreeing equivalent standards and being a vassal state of the demonic EU.

Going back to the old trope of chlorinated chicken, the UK accepting this would not be equivalent SPS standards so we would either need 1 level of SPS standards for GB only and another for Northern Ireland with some serious amounts of paperwork to handle this or we're back to where we are now.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

We are more equal in the sense that our standards are aligned. They should grant us equivalence.

Do the rules state that chilled meat products can be imported into the EU by non EU countries if standards are aligned?

Or, do they state that no non EU country can import chilled meat products such as sausages into the EU

It's the latter, go on, admit it, it won't hurt.

We voted to leave the EU, we've left the EU, we now play by the rules of a non EU country.

This is what the people who voted for wanted to happen, the people voted the government in with a huge majority based on the election promise to 'Get Brexit done.' Well, Brexit is done.

The people who voted for this increasing shambles of a situation, now need to own it.