*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[darkmage46]

does the new ntl business speeds hav a cap and if so what are they?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by darkmage46

does the new ntl business speeds hav a cap and if so what are they?

http://business.ntl.com

[darkmage46]

nice link - pity it dosent work
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oops now it does - page must have been in the process of being updated
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cant find any aup or dl limits maybe im just thick

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by jtwn

OK, taken that into consideration, but there is no average cost you know of?

Nope, most of our costs are local network related so how long is a piece of string?

[jtwn]

Ok, well thanks anyway, great asset to this forum this man!

[mcmanic]

can someone tell me if NTL are trying to stop heavy users then why is AOL allowed to use the NTL network and they have no download limits. Not everything can be blamed on NTL users surely?, AOL has a large user base also surely them users must effect the service for us NTL users?

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by mcmanic

can someone tell me if NTL are trying to stop heavy users then why is AOL allowed to use the NTL network and they have no download limits. Not everything can be blamed on NTL users surely?, AOL has a large user base also surely them users must effect the service for us NTL users?

Just maybe AOL pay ntl enough that it's not an issue

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by mcmanic

can someone tell me if NTL are trying to stop heavy users then why is AOL allowed to use the NTL network and they have no download limits. Not everything can be blamed on NTL users surely?, AOL has a large user base also surely them users must effect the service for us NTL users?

AOL may be paying in a manner that makes its customers usage on cable an attractive proposition for NTL. AOL has a very large user base, but not on cable.

[obvious]

Capping is a non issue for the foreseeable future.

Even the 24*7 leechers have very little chance of being contacted and here's why...

ntl have said that they'll only contact those who degrade the service for others. By using the traffic report function of docsdiag anyone contacted by ntl can simply check to see if their UBR is congested.

I'd suggest that maybe 1 in 50 of the 24*7 downloaders (who are in themselves a pretty rare group of customers anyway) is actually on a UBR where there is any degradation in service even at peak hours due to excess traffic.

The vast majority of the UBR's are NOT congested. It's a myth. How many threads on this site are there where customers complain of not getting their full download rate? Not very many especially when compared to the number of customers out there.


As an aside I find it odd that people are getting worked up over whether the leechers are engaged in illegal activity or not. The fact remains that you cant change human nature. People will continue to download copyrighted material without permission. Any (expensive) measures put in place to prevent this will be simply circumvented by the 'scene' community for example by forcing downloads though port 80 so they look like regular web traffic.

In any case there are a growing number of 'grey area' and legitimate reasons to download in excess of 1GB a day. The 'adult' market alone makes up a huge proportion of overall downloads and much of this content is not copyrighted. Bear in mind that 1GB of DVD quality video is only about 30 minutes of viewing. Timeshifted TV is another huge and arguably legitimate reason to download. 1 episode of your favourite drama/sci-fi or whatever a day could take you over the limit.

People can easily upload/download 1GB of data per day consistantly and legally and they do.

Finally, all those quoting the AUP ad-nauseam would do well to remember that whether an online document that gets updated regularly without formal notification of these changes to the customer can be considered part of the contractual agreement has yet to be tested. Personally I dont believe that it's legal for one party to unilaterally amend a contract without providing notice in writing in advance. But that's another argument.

Anyway I'm off to download that episode of 24 that I missed last week

Originally Posted by obvious

By using the traffic report function of docsdiag anyone contacted by ntl can simply check to see if their UBR is congested.

I thought this no longer worked ?

[darkmage46]

ntl dont have to give writen notification of a change to it's aup or t's&c's unless the change is "substantial"

now define "substatial" as in relation to an AUP or T&C

[obvious]

Originally Posted by Paul M

I thought this no longer worked ?

Hmm it had been a while since I've run it. Just tried again and it didn't give me useful results. I'll email rdhw and ask whether it's still useful. Will be a shame if it doesn't work anymore.

[chris1234]

hi does any1 have an example to show me please of caps for download and upload plz thanks

[obvious]

Originally Posted by chris1234

hi does any1 have an example to show me please of caps for download and upload plz thanks

1GB = 30 minutes of DVD quality video

Not sure if this is the sort of thing you are after

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by obvious

Capping is a non issue for the foreseeable future.

Even the 24*7 leechers have very little chance of being contacted and here's why...

ntl have said that they'll only contact those who degrade the service for others. By using the traffic report function of docsdiag anyone contacted by ntl can simply check to see if their UBR is congested.

I'd suggest that maybe 1 in 50 of the 24*7 downloaders (who are in themselves a pretty rare group of customers anyway) is actually on a UBR where there is any degradation in service even at peak hours due to excess traffic.

The vast majority of the UBR's are NOT congested. It's a myth. How many threads on this site are there where customers complain of not getting their full download rate? Not very many especially when compared to the number of customers out there.


As an aside I find it odd that people are getting worked up over whether the leechers are engaged in illegal activity or not. The fact remains that you cant change human nature. People will continue to download copyrighted material without permission. Any (expensive) measures put in place to prevent this will be simply circumvented by the 'scene' community for example by forcing downloads though port 80 so they look like regular web traffic.

In any case there are a growing number of 'grey area' and legitimate reasons to download in excess of 1GB a day. The 'adult' market alone makes up a huge proportion of overall downloads and much of this content is not copyrighted. Bear in mind that 1GB of DVD quality video is only about 30 minutes of viewing. Timeshifted TV is another huge and arguably legitimate reason to download. 1 episode of your favourite drama/sci-fi or whatever a day could take you over the limit.

People can easily upload/download 1GB of data per day consistantly and legally and they do.

Finally, all those quoting the AUP ad-nauseam would do well to remember that whether an online document that gets updated regularly without formal notification of these changes to the customer can be considered part of the contractual agreement has yet to be tested. Personally I dont believe that it's legal for one party to unilaterally amend a contract without providing notice in writing in advance. But that's another argument.

Anyway I'm off to download that episode of 24 that I missed last week

It is very easy to quote what is possible on a connection but it is impossible to know what usage there is on every UBR unless you work for NTL and are privy to those stats.

The main fault with your argument though is that you have no control or comeback against anything that NTL say or do. Check DOCSDIAG as much as you like but that does not prove anything other than what was happening at a specific moment in time. If NTL were to contact you and tell you to modify your usage and you didn't so they followed up with removing your service you will have to look for another ISP. There is nothing at all that you could do about it. Tell us how you could defend use of say 50Gb per month and keep your connection if NTL decided they no longer wanted you as a customer.

People mention illegal activity because that is the primary reason for caps being introduced.

It is quite easy for NTL to identify users who download more than 1Gb per day and for them to discover what they are downloading no matter how you change things to try to hide what you are doing.