smoking and the pub

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

Looking at the children who have asthma that I know they all come from non-smoking families. Could it be that living in a too clean environment makes people more susceptible to certain illnesses and diseases? More children these days suffer from respiratory problems although the percentage of people smoking is falling. Is it the case that there are more pollutants in the air from sources other than tobacco smoke that is causing this increase or is it a weakening of the immune system? Smoking will naturally get the blame though as it is the easy target.

an interesting concept but what does the science 'facts' say about it?

http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk/fact_sheets/M...ts/asthma.html

interestingly Bupa dont list 'smoking' or 'exposure to passive smoke' under the causes, but your concept is there:-

"there is a theory (called the hygiene hypothesis) that people in developed countries are no longer exposed to the kinds of infections they would have had to deal with in the past so the immune system over-reacts to harmless substances"

---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:30 ----------

although it does say "If you smoke, you should give up as this is good for your health and will improve your asthma symptoms".

---------- Post added at 17:32 ---------- Previous post was at 17:31 ----------

a quick search on yahoo for 'smoking causes asthma' brought this up:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1562147.stm

---------- Post added at 17:34 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------

the conclusion appears to be exposure to smoke makes you more likely to develop Asthma/respiratory problems.

[Hom3r]

In the last six months where I used to work, two men died.

One had been off due to cancer treatment, he died of a heart attack cause by chemo (apparently this can happen).

another (somebody I would talk to daily) feeling ill when for test was given two weeks due to cancer, he lasted under that. (his brother & father died of the same thing).

All these had ONE thing in common.

They smoked, come rain or shine, the would stand outside in all weathers, (smoking was NOT allowed in the building, doing so was a sackable offence) just to have a ciggy.

I also have lost two grandparents due to smoking they both had strokes, which were caused by smoking. and both took about 6 months to die.

So IMHO smoking should be banned outright, total and complete, except in you home.

[etccarmageddon]

but if it's not banned in the home then what about thoughtless parents who smoke in front of their kids - what protection is there for the kids 'human rights' to a safe environment?

[Hom3r]

I do agree but it would be impossible to police, so let them smoke there.

[etccarmageddon]

I'd say if you put your kids in danger via smoking in front of them then you should be hauled up in front of a magistrate for doing it but it would be one of those laws which would be probably impossible to gain a conviction on.

[Salu]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

FFS No wonder this place gets people irate,

I suggest you ALL re read my post, not once did i say smoking was not bad for you.
Not once did I say it was perfectly OK to smoke.
Not once did I say I was pro smoking.

Yet you all jumped ot the same conclusion.

I never jumped to that conclusion.

You said

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

I have smoked on and off since I was 17.
I went to join a gym yesterday and my PEF reading was off the scale, compared to my non smoking partner who could only manage 350, I hit 900 plus.
Thats 900 litres of air an hour apparently, so much for smoking affecting the lungs.

Therefore I asked you...

Originally Posted by Salu

timewarrior2001, I don't know why you should take a one off gym PEFV spirometer reading and conclude that a) smoking ain't affecting your lungs and b) the hundreds of evidence based medical papers that have been produced showing the harmful effects of smoking are pants; but I don't think you are being realistic.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Actually read what I said, It was neither pro smoking nor anti smoking, my post was about the what if's the fact that smoking kills, when in reality it should be smoking MAY kill, smoking MAY cause cancer, smoking MAY damage your unborn baby.

Not true. Smoking Kills, smoking causes cancer, smoking does damage your lungs. FACT. The issue is......not in everyone.

So from your comments about "so much for smoking the lungs", what is your response to the question below?

Originally Posted by etccarmagedden

er ok, so you do accept smoking affects your lungs?

YES or NO?

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

er ok, so you do accept smoking affects your lungs?

YES or NO?

YES ok?

Smoking has been proven to affect some people and not others.

Therefore whilst smoking may kill Mr A, it may not kill Miss B, therefore it is satisfsactory to deduce smoking MAY kill.

Lets take a look at some of the things, including the obvious Lung cancer.

Mr roy Castle, Never smoked, succumbed to lung cancer, thought to be through passive smoking, although it is not determined that this was the case.
Miss Emma Brown (21 years of age), succumbed to Cancer of several types, one being lung cancer, never smoked in her life.
Mr X (future father in law, smoked since the age of 14, he is now 58, recently had a toe amputated possibly becuase of the effects of smoking although his doctor would not state it for a fact.
Asthma, millions of people suffer from asthma...however take a look at this:-

What is Asthma?
Asthma is a condition that affects the airways – the small tubes that carry air in and out of the lungs. If you have asthma your airways are almost always sensitive and inflamed. When you come in to contact with something you are allergic to, or something that irritates your airways (a trigger), your airways will become narrower, making it harder to breathe. The muscles around the walls of your airways tighten. The lining of the airways becomes inflamed and starts to swell and often sticky mucus or phlegm is produced. This will lead to you experiencing asthma symptoms.

Asthma is one of the more serious "allergies" and we recommend that you visit www.asthma.org.uk for additional information. The information below is sourced from their website.

Taken from http://www.theallergysite.co.uk/asthma.html

this may coincide with the steady rise of people suffering allergies, and could be interpreted as mentioned before, that because we all now try and life in such sterile environments our bodies are over reacting to the slightest thing. Asthma whilst possibly triggered by cigarette smoke can be just as easily triggered by dust, animals, food stuffs, you name it, anything anyone can have an allergic reaction too.

An asthma trigger is anything that irritates your airways. Everyone's asthma is different and you will probably find that you have several asthma triggers. Common asthma triggers include:

• viral infections (colds or 'flu)
• allergies (eg to pollen, animals, house-dust mites)
• irritants (eg cold air, tobacco smoke, chemical fumes)
• exercise

Although it is unlikely that you will be able to avoid all your asthma triggers all of the time, steering clear of them when you can will help to keep your symptoms at bay.

It can be difficult to identify exactly what triggers your asthma. Sometimes the link is obvious, for example when your symptoms start within minutes of coming into contact with a cat or dog. But some people can have a delayed reaction to an asthma trigger, so some extra detective work may be needed.
Using a diary card to record your peak flow readings and/or asthma symptoms will help you to identify your asthma triggers. You can get a free personal asthma diary card from the National Asthma Campaign or at www.asthma.org.uk . Note the times when your symptoms are worse and anything that you might have come into contact with. Discuss this with your doctor or practice nurse.

Your doctor may also recommend a skin ***** test or that you see an allergy specialist.

So as I said before, whilst any death is sad, especially in a child, we must not take one persons crusade against the cigarette to be gospel. This child May have suffered an attack because of the parents smoking, it could just be simply an unfortunate event that occured because the child had an illness also.
The fact the childrens parents smoked when the news of their childs death was broken to them hardly portrays them in a bad light as was so obviously intended. Smoking helps people remain calm, you see anyone thats a smoker or ex smoker, in times of high stress they either light up or as I have witnessed many a time, find themselves comtemplating smoking again.

hat helps?
• Regular use of your preventer inhaler will reduce the risk of an asthma attack due to colds or infections.

• A healthy diet with lots of fresh fruit and vegetables containing vitamin C will help fight viruses.

• Flu injections are recommended for people with severe asthma and people over the age of 60.
• Use barrier covers for your mattress, duvet and pillow and wipe them with a damp cloth once a week.

• Hot wash (at 600C) sheets, duvet covers and pillow cases once a week.

• Keep soft toys to a minimum. Either hot wash them every 1-2 weeks or put soft toys into a bag in the freezer for six hours to kill mites.

• If your in the market for a good vacuum cleaner look out for the British Allergy Foundation seal of approval. This is based upon High Efficiency Particulate Air (HEPA) filtration. HEPA 12 is the highest possible and filters out 99.97% of the most penetrating particles (like allergens, dust mite faeces and tobacco smoke). Besides HEPA, there's the S-Class filtration, which also rates a 99.97% filtration. This standard is required of vacuums used in hospitals.

If you're a pet owner you should choose a cleaner with Active Air Clean filter. This filter will be more effective at removing pet hairs and eliminating odours. A turbo brush is also ideal for removing pet hair. Some new vacuum cleaners offer different types of filtration, including one that filters through water, which is a good way of trapping dust mites and allergens.

• Damp dust all surfaces daily or use an attachment on your vacuum cleaner.

• Use cotton or synthetic blankets instead of wool. They are easier to wash and are less likely to carry allergens.

• If you smoke, you could be putting your children at risk. Passive smoking is particularly harmful to young children. If you are planning a baby, it is really important that neither parents smoke. Studies have shown that children of mothers who smoke are more likely to develop asthma. Other evidence suggests that if a parent of a child with asthma stops smoking, it can decrease the severity of the child's asthma.

Inhaling other people's smoke is hazardous for people with asthma too. Eighty per cent of people in a National Asthma Campaign survey said that other people's cigarette smoke triggered their asthma symptoms.

• If someone in your family has asthma, or if there is a family history of asthma, don't keep a furry – or a feathered – pet.

• Up to 50 per cent of children with asthma are triggered by an allergy to cats and/or dogs.

• The urine from guinea pigs, rats, rabbits and gerbils can cause problems too.

• Bathing cats and dogs once a week may help. Ask your vet for advice on how to do this properly.

• Always keep pets out of areas like the lounge and bedroom.

• Studies have shown that using a vacuum cleaner with a filter can reduce levels of cat allergen in the air

• Take your usual dose of reliever inhaler before going out on cold, dry days

• Wear a scarf over your face if it's cold and windy. It will help warm the air up before you breathe it in.

• Try to avoid going out in the middle of the day on hot, smoggy days.

Thunderstorms can also release large quantities of pollen into the air and trigger asthma attacks.

• If grass pollen triggers your asthma it is important to review your treatment with your doctor or practice nurse before the hay fever season begins.

• On hot, dry days avoid spending too much time outdoors.

• Avoid long grass.

• Keep car windows closed.

• Look out for pollen forecasts on the television, in newspapers or on the internet.

So whilst I and the medical profession acknowledge that smoking is bad, I will not houn smokers, I will respect their rights to do what they please in this free country, I wont simply blame parents for killing their child because they smoke. I will look at the evidence and I shall make my own mind up. I still do NOT think that the parents smoking killed the child in the example given.

[etccarmageddon]

thank god for that!

Speaking as an ex-smoker, when I did smoke, I smoked in front of whoever was around me at the time, my kids, their friends, my wife other family members, Joe Bloggs etc... it’s not that I didn’t care, I did, it’s just that I cared more about my fix of nicotine that the ciggie’s gave me at that particular moment in time than anything else.

One day I just started to think more about the effects that my smoking has on me and others, something inside me clicked, seeing my parents and my wife’s parents and brother die prematurely from smoking related illnesses made me think long and hard about what I had to do, and boy was it going to be hard! Talk about cold turkey! I'd been smoking since I started secondary school some 32 years ago I've not smoked for around 6 years now, so I was a regular smoker for 26 years. There is no easy way to give up, you just have to get it into your head that this isn’t going to be easy... it’s probably going to be one of the hardest things your likely to do in your life. Also get into your head that it’s a battle, a battle between good and evil, and the evil had me gripped in its tight fist for 26 years!

First thing I did was choose a date to stop and also bought 1 week of patches. The patches do work, they help take away more than half the cravings I was having, I know this because on the 8th day of not smoking, I didn’t have a patch and my cravings went sky high... I was snapping at everyone who came in contact with me plus I’d eaten most of the contents of the cupboards and fridge! But I stuck with it, always thinking I am the boss in this fight! No way am I going to let them evil coffin nails beat me... no way! So almost 6 years later the cravings have almost faded away, but I must admit every time I see someone light-up a cig, it brought back the feelings of just how good it felt to inhale that first drag of beautiful nicotine filled smoke! But that doesn’t last long, I think of all the benefits giving it up has given me like feeling healthier, I’ve saved thousands of £££’s , I don’t smell like an ash tray anymore, neither do my family and house, it hasn’t just benefitted me and my family though, its also benefitted good old Joe Bloggs.

I must say just one more thing... DONT GIVE UP THE FIGHT!!

My apologies for this post going slightly off topic.

[Pia]

Well done Dodger444.

You are an inspiration to me. I am a smoker and i'm in the process of getting into the right frame of mindto quit. I will be a non smoker in the next few days. Fact.

My main reason for stopping is that i have a 2 year old son, and reading articles like Salu's post make me feel i HAVE to do it- even if the liklihood of it affecting him that much is being contended on this thread.

Still, i like smoking, but i'm ashamed to call myself a smoker

---------- Post added at 22:38 ---------- Previous post was at 22:35 ----------

Forgot to add, i tried stopping last year and failed, all the more reason to not fail this time! When i need more inspiration i'll look to your post and many other inspiring words HERE

[Salu]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

So as I said before, whilst any death is sad, especially in a child, we must not take one persons crusade against the cigarette to be gospel. This child May have suffered an attack because of the parents smoking, it could just be simply an unfortunate event that occured because the child had an illness also.
The fact the childrens parents smoked when the news of their childs death was broken to them hardly portrays them in a bad light as was so obviously intended. Smoking helps people remain calm, you see anyone thats a smoker or ex smoker, in times of high stress they either light up or as I have witnessed many a time, find themselves comtemplating smoking again.

Neither should we portray smoking as only a possible risk. It is a significant risk bordering on likelihood.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Taken from http://www.theallergysite.co.uk/asthma.html

this may coincide with the steady rise of people suffering allergies, and could be interpreted as mentioned before, that because we all now try and life in such sterile environments our bodies are over reacting to the slightest thing. Asthma whilst possibly triggered by cigarette smoke can be just as easily triggered by dust, animals, food stuffs, you name it, anything anyone can have an allergic reaction too.

There is indeed evidence suggesting this. Also evidence suggesting that because children these days have such easy access to antibiotics may be causing or contributing to asthma.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Smoking has been proven to affect some people and not others.

Smoking will always affect you. It may not be the cause of your death though.

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

So whilst I and the medical profession acknowledge that smoking is bad, I will not houn smokers, I will respect their rights to do what they please in this free country, I wont simply blame parents for killing their child because they smoke. I will look at the evidence and I shall make my own mind up. I still do NOT think that the parents smoking killed the child in the example given.

They may not have caused the asthma but they almost definately will have contributed to her death. Smoke in the event of an asthma attack is highly detrimental. Believe me. I treat people regularly who are having asthma attacks.....

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Salu

There is indeed evidence suggesting this. Also evidence suggesting that because children these days have such easy access to antibiotics may be causing or contributing to asthma.

It's interesting to note that people are happy to exercise most parts of their body, but totally ignore the immune system, which surely needs excerise as much as any other part of the body.

Not saying people should go and deliberately expose themselves to disease, but surely having things too sterile won't help.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

It's interesting to note that people are happy to exercise most parts of their body, but totally ignore the immune system, which surely needs excerise as much as any other part of the body.

Not saying people should go and deliberately expose themselves to disease, but surely having things too sterile won't help.

Very true, children from very clean & sterile housholds seem to get more illnesses.

Whatever happened to mud pies?


One thing I notice since becoming a non smoker, whenever I have been out to the pub I have a phlemmy cough the next morning.

[Salu]

Originally Posted by Angua

One thing I notice since becoming a non smoker, whenever I have been out to the pub I have a phlemmy cough the next morning.

That's because the little hairs (villi) in your trachea that fibrillate slightly in order to bring up excess phlegm away from your lungs are paralysed by smoke. Usually you then swallow the phelgm....maybe that's too much detail?

[etccarmageddon]

either that or the Kabab on the way home causes it!