*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[Mattitude]

Originally Posted by Neil

<snip>

[Graham M]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

There are plenty of legal ways to use 2GB a day bandwidth - what my uses are is none of your business, but your and others' posts here show your ignorance about the internet.

Wow. That's a LOT of Porn

and nice Response Neil

[Mattitude]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Wow. That's a LOT of Porn

and nice Response Neil

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by Neil

http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/broadband

It actually lists it as a "usage allowance", rather than specifying up/download limits.

So Mr SmartArse Despite what you implied yesterday, ntl don't explicitly say whether the 1GB/day includes uploads or not. Yes, they imply that it does, but they don't explictly say so. Furthermore, on another page they refer to a quote 'download limit' of 1GB/day. I am quite sure the 1GB does include uploads, but until ntl say officially, nobody knows - maybe not even you

But no there aren't. People who "need" to download 2GB per day are either doing something illegal, or need a business connection (or both).

When did I say I need to? I want to. I don't *need* the internet, or even a computer, or a car, or a TV.. but I have them all because I want them. Anyone who thinks 2gig a day is a lot is having a laugh basically. Christ you can download that in an hour or two with the new speeds if you wanted.

That's true, but if your "use" of your internet connection is affecting others in your area, then it is ntl's business.

I don't disagree, but it would make more sense to allow (as at least one other ISP does) unlimited OFF-PEAK use, where the network load is far lower. By all means have a cap during peak times. Having a cap for the whole day makes no sense.

Your posts here clearly show your ignorance regarding me/us/this site, I suggest you do a little more research before you make sweeping statements like that.

(snip)

So, please don't make sweeping comments about me or my site members (lack of) knowledge of the internet, when most have been using it far longer than maybe you yourself have.

I am not a regular here, that doesn't mean I'm new to the internet or wet behind the ears. I post on lots of forums and this is obviously not my main haunt. If someone doesn't know what they're talking about, having more posts than me or having joined before me doesn't alter that basic fact.

Originally Posted by Neil

http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/broadband

It actually lists it as a "usage allowance", rather than specifying up/download limits.


But no there aren't. People who "need" to download 2GB per day are either doing something illegal, or need a business connection (or both).


That's true, but if your "use" of your internet connection is affecting others in your area, then it is ntl's business.


Your posts here clearly show your ignorance regarding me/us/this site, I suggest you do a little more research before you make sweeping statements like that.

I am totally against the ntl cap (& I don't even have ntl BB) because of the way they introduced it.

They sneaked it into their AUP late on a Friday afternoon, hoping no one would notice (except we leaked it), & then applied to all customers-new & existing & that is why I (& others have an issue with it).

IMO, if you are going to change a service like that, then the change should only apply to new customers, & should also be well communicated & documented to them too (something that ntl are completely incable of), that way those customers can make an informed decision as to whether they want to sign up to an ISP with a cap. Existing customers should have been left "uncapped" IMO as that's what they signed up to.

It kinda reminds me of the old 'Mercury' mobile phone tariffs when they launched many moons ago. Youhad to buy the phone, but the tariff it came with was free evening & weekend calls (to landlines & mobiles I think)

There are plenty of people out there who still have this tariff & it costs T-Mobile (as they are now) a fortune, & those people regularly get contacted by T-Mobile offering them big wads of cash to sign a new contract on a different tariff (not surprisingly, no one takes them up on their "offer"!) & that's what I feel should have happened with ntl & their sneaky cap.

t wasn't so much the cap itself that was the issue, more so the way in which they chose to force it on new & existing customers in a sneaky, underhand way.

So, please don't make sweeping comments about me or my site members (lack of) knowledge of the internet, when most have been using it far longer than maybe you yourself have.

You the man Neil superb post

[Neil]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

When did I say I need to? I want to. I don't *need* the internet, or even a computer, or a car, or a TV.. but I have them all because I want them. Anyone who thinks 2gig a day is a lot is having a laugh basically. Christ you can download that in an hour or two with the new speeds if you wanted.

Ok, so your "want" to download 2GB per day is the problem as ntl don't allow that much data to be downloaded using their BB service.

Originally Posted by dirtydog

I don't disagree, but it would make more sense to allow (as at least one other ISP does) unlimited OFF-PEAK use, where the network load is far lower. By all means have a cap during peak times. Having a cap for the whole day makes no sense.

Agreed, but it should already be clear to you that ntl don't put consumer choice top of their list of priorities.

Originally Posted by dirtydog

I am not a regular here

You will be though!

Originally Posted by dirtydog

that doesn't mean I'm new to the internet or wet behind the ears.

Vice versa too, which why I said for you to not make sweeping statement about me/us.

Originally Posted by dirtydog

I post on lots of forums and this is obviously not my main haunt. If someone doesn't know what they're talking about, having more posts than me or having joined before me doesn't alter that basic fact.

Correct, but your post count is not relevant here, what's relevant is the posts you have made about the data that you "want" to download, & ntl not offering an uncapped service anymore.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

I occasionally get music through WinMx. Not nearly enough to go near a cap, but possibly six or seven items a month. However, I'm fully aware that this is deemed 'illegal activity' and I wouldn't expect my ISP, whoever they were, to support my doing that in any way. Nor would I claim on here that I was really downloading Linux distros.

As long as you arent uploading copywrited music or other material to people then you are fine to continue. It's the uploaders the music/movie corporations are going after as they are the ones distributing the music/movies. So despite your confession! I think you have nothing to worry about.

Although I bet what you listen to isnt music is it young man, I bet it's that loud rubbish which passes for music these days - when I was your age there was real music and singing - non of this screaming and out of tune garbage. We had proper artistics in my day, people we could look up to, real performers. www.sex-pistols.net

[Rone]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

Although I bet what you listen to isnt music is it young man, I bet it's that loud rubbish which passes for music these days - when I was your age there was real music and singing - non of this screaming and out of tune garbage. We had proper artistics in my day, people we could look up to, real performers. www.sex-pistols.net

You forgot Screaming Lord Sutch.


Hopefully.

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

There are plenty of legal ways to use 2GB a day bandwidth - what my uses are is none of your business, but your and others' posts here show your ignorance about the internet.

LOLOLOL!

Rather than respond to this myself, I'll refer you to Neil's reply.

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

As long as you arent uploading copywrited music or other material to people then you are fine to continue. It's the uploaders the music/movie corporations are going after as they are the ones distributing the music/movies. So despite your confession! I think you have nothing to worry about.

If he downloads then he also uploads.. even those p2p networks which allow you to leech (eg. WinMX.. btw I despise leechers, who download loads of stuff but choose to upload nothing in return) still upload the files you are downloading off others.

Of course the BPI have so far only gone after the largest uploaders (several thousand files each, iirc) so I daresay he is safe from their attentions.

I'll make no secret that most of my bandwidth usage goes on p2p.. yes, those files people are happy to leech come from people like me, who do upload and share. It's also worth reminding people that not all p2p usage is illegal, and many legal downloads are distributed this way, eg. game demos and Linux distros. Whether those are the type of files I personally use p2p for, I'll leave you to guess

btw please, before anyone gives the 'p2p is bad mmkay' speech, save it, I've heard it already

[Neil]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

I'll make no secret that most of my bandwidth usage goes on p2p.

So I was right then?

Originally Posted by dirtydog

yes, those files people are happy to leech come from people like me, who do upload and share. It's also worth reminding people that not all p2p usage is illegal, and many legal downloads are distributed this way, eg. game demos and Linux distros. Whether those are the type of files I personally use p2p for, I'll leave you to guess

I'm willing to bet this site that your downloads are most illegal, I can't see how anyone could download 2GB per day of data legally & constantly.

Originally Posted by dirtydog

btw please, before anyone gives the 'p2p is bad mmkay' speech, save it, I've heard it already

Not sure what "p2p is bad mmkay'' actually means, so I won't say it.

What I will say is I wish those who want to download warez would stop hiding behind the old "I download Linux ISOs legally"-it's complete cr@p & just sounds pathetic now.

It's stale & no one believes it-there aren't enough "Linux" ISOs released each month to justify 60GB per month, so that little gem is priceless.

Yes you "could" download large Linux distros legally & genuinely & go over 2GB per day easily, but you couldn't do it over a month, & anyone that says they can/do download 60GB of legal data per month is either lying or using their residential connection for business purposes (or both) IMO.

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by Neil

What I will say is I wish those who want to download warez would stop hiding behind the old "I download Linux ISOs legally"-it's complete cr@p & just sounds pathetic now.

It's stale & no one believes it-there aren't enough "Linux" ISOs released each month to justify 60GB per month, so that little gem is priceless.

Yes you "could" download large Linux distros legally & genuinely & go over 2GB per day easily, but you couldn't do it over a month, & anyone that says they can/do download 60GB of legal data per month is either lying or using their residential connection for business purposes (or both) IMO.

I didn't say I download 2GB a day. I upload around 1GB a day, the rest is downloads. Most of my upload is p2p, the rest is general usage, ie. web, gaming, instant messaging etc.

Despite what you may believe, p2p (bittorrent) is widely used for legitimate purposes. If people like me did not leave their client running - uploading - after our downloads had finished, others wouldn't be able to download anything - or at best they'd get lousy download speeds.

Fwiw here is my bandwidth usage for the past week.. (note my upload for today is low as I have throttled back to try and stay within the 1GB.. I am on target to exceed it though)

NetMeter Daily Reports;
;
Date;Upload;Download;UL + DL
03/03/2005;649.06 MB;1.294 GB;1.928 GB
04/03/2005;1.044 GB;2.227 GB;3.270 GB
05/03/2005;1.067 GB;3.008 GB;4.076 GB
06/03/2005;897.32 MB;1.404 GB;2.280 GB
07/03/2005;956.14 MB;984.57 MB;1.895 GB
08/03/2005;1.016.99 MB;1.430 GB;2.423 GB
09/03/2005;921.65 MB;841.51 MB;1.722 GB
10/03/2005;283.87 MB;259.38 MB;543.25 MB

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

I didn't say I download 2GB a day. I upload around 1GB a day, the rest is downloads. Most of my upload is p2p, the rest is general usage, ie. web, gaming, instant messaging etc.

Despite what you may believe, p2p (bittorrent) is widely used for legitimate purposes. If people like me did not leave their client running - uploading - after our downloads had finished, others wouldn't be able to download anything - or at best they'd get lousy download speeds.

Fwiw here is my bandwidth usage for the past week.. (note my upload for today is low as I have throttled back to try and stay within the 1GB.. I am on target to exceed it though)

It's good that you are thinking about others by leaving your p2p client running. But why not think about the other NTL users around you who may be suffering degraded service because of this?

There are legal uses for p2p but get real, over 60% of internet resources are taken up by illegal use through p2p, irc or newsgroups. Somebody has to pay for all that and it is mainly users who never do anything illegal. You can say that your p2p is justified because of rip-off prices for music, videos and software, but are you justified in ripping off your fellow users? Prices for broadband would probably be lower if all illegal use was stamped out and there may be no need for capping. So just think before complaining about caps that it is you and others like you who are causing them to be implemented.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

I didn't say I download 2GB a day. I upload around 1GB a day, the rest is downloads. Most of my upload is p2p, the rest is general usage, ie. web, gaming, instant messaging etc.

Oh...that's ok then.

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Despite what you may believe, p2p (bittorrent) is widely used for legitimate purposes.

I'm not sure "widely" would be an accurate description, yes it's used for legitimate purposes, but widely? I don't think so personally.

Originally Posted by dirtydog

If people like me did not leave their client running - uploading - after our downloads had finished, others wouldn't be able to download anything - or at best they'd get lousy download speeds.

If "people like you" didn't hammer their connections, other customers would have a better service.

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Fwiw here is my bandwidth usage for the past week.. (note my upload for today is low as I have throttled back to try and stay within the 1GB.. I am on target to exceed it though)

As I have already said, you should be with an uncapped ISP.

[jtwn]

The fact of the matter that downloading copyrighted material for personal use is NOT illegal in the UK.