smoking and the pub

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Nothing - she gave up years ago remember?

__________________

Originally Posted by david.ewles

A pub near me which serves food, I very much doubt they will get rid of food so they get smokers in it.

A mate of mine who works theres says that they make more money on food on Sat/Sun than they do on booze all week.

So IMHO saying that pubs will go bust if they ban smoking doesn't hold much water to me.

Great, that's a pub that's more of a food establishment than a drinking one.
My ex's pub however made hardly any money through food in comparison to what they raked in from booze (and they had seating for 80 diners)
Now if they were to ban smoking and loose their regulars because of it (all of whom smoked, one of which did so to death) they would go bust.

Of course quite a few pubs use food for marketing purpposes, to attract custom, from which drink is then their main revenue earner. And draught soft drinks offer the highest margins so attracting more families mightn't be a bad idea.

[SlackDad]

Originally Posted by andyl

Of course quite a few pubs use food for marketing purpposes, to attract custom, from which drink is then their main revenue earner. And draught soft drinks offer the highest margins so attracting more families mightn't be a bad idea.

Nothing wrong with attracting more families into pubs, as long as pubs don't become the new McDonalds in their attempt to target children, and ply them with sugar filled crap. Well I suppose it will give Jamie Oliver something else to do in a few years

Or, as I posted earlier pubs will be smoke free, alcohol free with a crÃÃâ€*’¨che, soft drinks and approved non-threatening music playing in the background

[fireman328]

Originally Posted by clarie

Sounds similar to a private party and so not a public place.

Chris T said it was unlawful in any aircraft registered in UK.
Just putting the record straight.
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Originally Posted by Xaccers

a) peoples' drinking habits.
d) ban encouraging people to quit smoking
Ok you've totally lost me.



Are you aware that smoking is a legal activity?
Are you aware that you have a responsibility to protect yourself from known health risks?
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No aircraft is a public place anyway.

Talking about this, I still don't think I've seen a reply from you on private members clubs, where the members will either be denied food, or will have to stand outside to smoke, even though everyone who is there finds smoking acceptable.

Private members clubs are a special case. These are not your average establishments such as "The Wheeltappers and Shunters Club" they are the very exclusive clubs as seen in Mayfair etc. where you have to be vetted before you can apply for membership and the members are ballotted on your acceptance, if just one member votes against you are "blackballed" and will not gain membership. A lot of MPs are members of these clubs so it could happen that an MP voted for the restrictions on public smoking whilst still being able to carry on smoking in their club. Whilst the "The Wheeltappers and Shunters Club" will be required to ban it.
Crazy innit !

Originally Posted by SlackDad

Or, as I posted earlier pubs will be smoke free, alcohol free with a crÃÃâ€*’¨che, soft drinks and approved non-threatening music playing in the background

Turning that on its head ... are you saying you like your pubs not only smoky, alcohol soaked, child-free and hard-drinking, but also with threatening music?

[Salu]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If a next door neighbour was to continually play their music at the legal limit, then I am not in a position to demand they do not continue to do so.

That's not quite correct. There are environmental laws in place to protect you the "victim" here from other people's selfishness and lack of consideration. Legislation is unfortunately required bacause of this....

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If someone is performing a completely legal activity which I do not want to participate in, it is up to me and not them to rectify the matter, either by moving myself away, or putting up a barrier of protection between myself and their activities.

Perhaps from a legal point of view but where is understanding and tolerance in this? Assuming that legal activity is smoking then of course they are in their "right" to smoke but depending on where they do it and who it affects then they you would hope that they would be understand of who it affects. Unfortunately people don't hence legislation is required.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

It is pointless talking about a ban on smoking in pubs as there is no such ban put forward.

It's not pointless at all. We can talk about anything we like on this forum...besides I think it is inevitable, it's just a question of time....

[clarie]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

What have you been smoking tonight clarie???

What are you talking about? Do you still not understand what I said?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I was responding to your response to my statement that normal aircrafts are not public places, therefore your point about fireman's chartered flight being a private party doesn't make a difference.

Chris T made a point a while back about not being able to smoke on planes, and someone else said 'but you can smoke on flights where a group of people charter a flight.' I was pointing out that this is similar to not being allowed to smoke in a public drinking establishment, but being allowed to smoke at a private party.

Further to the discussion of private planes ...

It has been the tactic of the pro-smokers in this thread to reduce the arguments in favour of a ban and to attempt to deconstruct them, the resulting deconstruction sounding authoritative but actually bearing little resemblance to the matter in hand.

The parallel between aircraft and pubs is clear and obvious. The law bans smoking on the 0730 BA flight from Glasgow to Heathrow and it bans smoking on the Airtours/Monarch/Air2000 charter flight to Marbella/Faro/Gran Caranria/wherever. All of these examples are *public* flights, whether scheduled or chartered, because the *public* are invited to take seats on them.

The matter of private planes chartered by private groups is utterly irrelevant to this discussion, as the Government is not proposing banning smoking in private homes.

Xaccers also mentioned earlier that the smoking ban on planes was introduced for fire safety rather than respiratory health reasons. Again, this is totally irrelevant and misses (I hope not wilfully) the point I was actually making. Here it is again anyway:

We do not hear continuous complaints that our civil liberties and freedom of choice are being infringed by the ban on smoking on aircraft. Why not?

[Salu]

Because noone has chosen to be cantankerous in that area yet??

[SlackDad]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Turning that on its head ... are you saying you like your pubs not only smoky, alcohol soaked, child-free and hard-drinking, but also withwith threatening music?

Hey, that's my local you've just described

It is interesting to note that as yet nobody has commented on the cultural impact of the ban that I posted earlier http://www.sundayherald.com/46058

I was trying to move away from discussing the ban from specifically within a discourse of risk: risk to health, risk to landlords business, risk to increased taxes, risk to mental health, risk of losing choice, etc. etc. And to look at other examples and how the ban has affected them. But it appears that as other threads show (I'm thinking of the Express headlines one specifically), that the culture of fear and risk that we seem to live is what people want to discuss. Which only serves to construct and perpetuate much of that fear. Maybe.

[clarie]

Originally Posted by SlackDad

It is interesting to note that as yet nobody has commented on the cultural impact of the ban that I posted earlier

It is an interesting article.

[SlackDad]

Originally Posted by clarie

It is an interesting article.

Very funny.
Or are you just proving my point

[clarie]

Well I am not sure what you want me to say. I was being genuine when I said it was interesting. But it doesn't change what I think about the ban. There are still a minority of smokers in this country. We still don't know what will happen if there is a UK ban. And no matter what happens, there are still non-smokers who would like to be protected from the smoke. As I have said all along, I would support a call for a sealed smoking room in pubs. As for this guy:

Kurt Haugli, contemplating leaving his warm Oslo office for a ciggie, had some sage words of advice for Scots ahead of the ban: †œWe were lucky that the summer was warm †“ even now you can get through a cigarette, people donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t mind a few minutes of cold. But in December? January? Youââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ll really have to wrap up, you know?ââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�

I would just say "Or......you could quit?"

[SlackDad]

Originally Posted by clarie

Well I am not sure what you want me to say. I was being genuine when I said it was interesting. But it doesn't change what I think about the ban. There are still a minority of smokers in this country. We still don't know what will happen if there is a UK ban. And no matter what happens, there are still non-smokers who would like to be protected from the smoke. As I have said all along, I would support a call for a sealed smoking room in pubs. As for this guy:


I would just say "Or......you could quit?"

I wasn't posting it to change opinion on the ban but to move the conversation on from one of risk to one of other effects, some of which may be unforeseen.

Although it does appear from the Irish example that smokers are having all the fun

Originally Posted by fireman328

Private members clubs are a special case. These are not your average establishments such as "The Wheeltappers and Shunters Club" they are the very exclusive clubs as seen in Mayfair etc. where you have to be vetted before you can apply for membership and the members are ballotted on your acceptance, if just one member votes against you are "blackballed" and will not gain membership. A lot of MPs are members of these clubs so it could happen that an MP voted for the restrictions on public smoking whilst still being able to carry on smoking in their club. Whilst the "The Wheeltappers and Shunters Club" will be required to ban it.
Crazy innit !

Er, I'm a member of a private club as are many, and they don't by any stretch have to be like The Garrick. Indeed, I wish mine was as upmarket as the Wheeltappers & Shunters! It's a working mens club where people with kids are shunted into a side room which is by far the smokiest in the building. So it's not just club member MPs who will be able to circumvent the ban - which is why I would like it to be total. Donno why the Govt is vacillating as we all know a total ban will eventually be introduced (a point which also kinda makes this thread redundant )