Young lad dies, after refusing blood

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zing

A tremendous amount of what you have said about JWs is totally opposite to my experiences of it from various congregations.

For some reason the congregation around you does not follow the path as laid out by Watchtower. They simply are not doing it right it does not matter if you are athiest or whatever

My Dad is an Atheist and a Scientist and I always kept a good relationship with him while I was active and was never encouraged not to

You were lucky then, their mother was put under a lot of pressure to try and convert her husband and it led to many arguments and nearly divorce on several occasions.
The first time I went along to the Kingdom hall (I used to give them lifts to and from it) and went inside, one of the Elders gave a talk, mostly aimed at the youngsters telling them they shouldn't be afraid to say no to anything their friends might try and get them to do which is agaist their religion, all well and good I thought, until he said "So remember children, beware atheists they will lead you astray"
I nearly choked when I heard that.

Most of the girls were not encouraged to go onto college and make something of themselves, instead they were encouraged to marry and go pioneering.

well look at it this way. Those who do not practice faith whole-fully or have no faith will be the ones taking drugs drinking to excess and living an immoral life so what he said is not that far from the truth.

You will highlight instances where a JW has done these things whilst a JW but I will counter that with the fact that they were not living by the faith whole-fully

A true Christian once they become a true Christian will not live an immoral lifestyle.Unfortunately for me I found being a true Christian to hard and that is why I am inactive . Rather not be a hypocrite in front of the God I still believe in

Also imo I believe you can be a true Christian without any affiliation to a church

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zing

well look at it this way. Those who do not practice faith whole-fully or have no faith will be the ones taking drugs drinking to excess and living an immoral life so what he said is not that far from the truth.

What? All of us without faith take drugs and drink to excess?
Interesting view of the pope or Terry Waite you have there

now who is misinterpreting something for their own gains lol


Not everyone who is a none Christian will live unclean lives and not all Christians will live clean lives. But a Christian who wholeheartedly lives by their faith will and if they do not then they are not true Christians

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

You were lucky then, their mother was put under a lot of pressure to try and convert her husband and it led to many arguments and nearly divorce on several occasions.
The first time I went along to the Kingdom hall (I used to give them lifts to and from it) and went inside, one of the Elders gave a talk, mostly aimed at the youngsters telling them they shouldn't be afraid to say no to anything their friends might try and get them to do which is agaist their religion, all well and good I thought, until he said "So remember children, beware atheists they will lead you astray"
I nearly choked when I heard that.

Most of the girls were not encouraged to go onto college and make something of themselves, instead they were encouraged to marry and go pioneering.

hmm i married outside my faith never been put under pressure to convert my wife

there will always be some who take things to far but eventually they will be shown the right way but being human that can take a while

yep youngsters are encouraged to pioneer but also to be able to provide for them selves as non of our pioneers or elders ect are paid to do the work or their jobs and are activley encouraged not to relie on others or the state to look after them
Matthew 9:35-38 & 10:6-8"Freely you have received, freely give."
the example given that Jesus was a qualified carpenter and didn't start his ministry till he was 30

as to those atheists leading you astray comment i have heard worse about those bible bashes leading you astray too and a lot of time we would use the term those in the world in the same way meaning anyone not of our faith but we dont mean by this that they should not talk to no one but to remember to not just take what other people say just because of who they are be it friend teacher etc and to check with the bible and with others in our faith if they are unsure as i am sure many would be saying the other way around if they came from another faith or atheist back ground

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

hmm i married outside my faith never been put under pressure to convert my wife

there will always be some who take things to far but eventually they will be shown the right way but being human that can take a while

Especially when the local group and Elders give their backing and support to such pressures.

Originally Posted by rogermevans

yep youngsters are encouraged to pioneer but also to be able to provide for them selves as non of our pioneers or elders ect are paid to do the work or their jobs and are activley encouraged not to relie on others or the state to look after them
Matthew 9:35-38 & 10:6-8"Freely you have received, freely give."
the example given that Jesus was a qualified carpenter and didn't start his ministry till he was 30

Actively discouraged from going into further or higher education, instead directed to get a job which pays their way, after all, "why bother when there's a new world order coming?" as said to an English teacher friend of mine by a parent when he suggested with a bit more effort their child could do better in class.

Originally Posted by rogermevans

as to those atheists leading you astray comment i have heard worse about those bible bashes leading you astray too and a lot of time we would use the term those in the world in the same way meaning anyone not of our faith but we dont mean by this that they should not talk to no one but to remember to not just take what other people say just because of who they are be it friend teacher etc and to check with the bible and with others in our faith if they are unsure as i am sure many would be saying the other way around if they came from another faith or atheist back ground

Will lead you astray??? Not "may" not "might" but "WILL"

[rogerdraig]

the first one yes local groups of elders will get things wrong but hopefully they would get sorted at some point by one of the traveling overseers

as to one parent yep they to get it wrong but out of my peer group most went on to university or apprenticeships a few went straight to pioneering though they too have since gained other qualifications before marrying

you have all sorts in the organization not all follow the rules as well as others and some plainly get it wrong all are fallible

i am happy to use the word will in stead i dont think it changes my post away from what i was trying to say ( though i may have to re read it )

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

the first one yes local groups of elders will get things wrong but hopefully they would get sorted at some point by one of the traveling overseers

I presume they ask questions such as "how many of your youngsters are being encouraged to go off to college and university?" and "I do hope you're not using our literature which gives misinformation in order to add false credence to our opinions so we can use that to convert more people? That would be awful if you did that" and "any underage sex going on that hasn't been reported to the police?" oh and "you haven't blamed someone's family troubles on Discworld books and X-Men comics being in the house have you?"
No? Didn't think so.

Originally Posted by rogermevans

i am happy to use the word will in stead i dont think it changes my post away from what i was trying to say ( though i may have to re read it )

Will would mean an enevitability, so you're saying that non-JWs will alway eventually lead JW's astray?
Apart from that not saying much for your opinion of non-JWs, it doesn't show much of an opinion of JWs either.

[rogerdraig]

hmm my version of English doesn't lay such hard a fast rules to a word

i will not eat that last cake is a good example of that lol

the first part is loaded with a lot more than what a was commenting on and would take far more space to go over than i have time for or the ability to type on here
but i will say that some of your comments may apply to older literature that we no longer use

we have always been willing to alter how we see things as time does by ( proverbs 4:18 ) ( the light gets brighter ) we have embraced many things however not all keep up all the time with developments ( my mum doesn't even like talking about evolution or science for example ) and i have both the disc world series in my house and all the harry potter books

as to underage sex if i heard about it it would be reported to the police if i thought it was non consensual no mater who or what their parents were as would all those i know

and my opinion of non JWs could be seen as not that bad considering i married one and i am still married to her ( 21 years in july lol )