The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3

[Neil22]

Vote for the Tories if you want your pants taking down bending over and bum raping by the millionaire gang.

If you really want to be took all the way and be sailed down the river vote Lib Dem.

If you like what we've got now albeit we are in a recession which every Government has witnessed then vote Labour.

Me I'll be voting labour.

---------- Post added at 12:40 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Latest Tory poster



In reaction to this, which Gordon Brown said (on last night's debate) he didn't approve, but it's on the Labour Party website

Cameron will not keep the winter fuel allowance, that will be the 1st thing he'll scrap along with the minimum wage. He's got to keep his millionaire sponsors / business owners happy hasn't he?

Thank you for your rational rebuttal, Mr Campbell.

btw, how are your millionaire donors Lord Paul, Lakshmi Mittal, Bernie Ecclestone, et al?

[Neil22]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Thank you for your rational rebuttal, Mr Campbell.

btw, how are your millionaire donors Lord Paul, Lakshmi Mittal, Bernie Ecclestone, et al?

Can't argue with these facts can you?? Will they be the same after a year of Tory rule? Doubt it somehow.

The shortest waiting times since NHS records began.
Three million more operations carried out each year than in 1997, with more than double the number of heart operations.
Over 44,000 more doctors.
Over 89,000 more nurses
Over three quarters of GP practices now offer extended opening hours for at least one evening or weekend session a week.
All prescriptions are now free for people being treated for cancer or the effects of cancer, and teenage girls are offered a vaccination against cervical cancer.
The NHS can now guarantee that you will see a cancer specialist within two weeks if your GP suspects you may have cancer. Whatever your condition, you will not have to wait more than 18 weeks from GP referral to the start of hospital treatment – and most waits are much shorter than this.
Over 100 new hospital building schemes completed.

3,500 Sure Start Children’s Centres opened, reaching over 2.8 million children and their families.
Over 42,000 more teachers and 212,000 more support staff, including 123,000 more teaching assistants, than in 1997.
There have been around 3,700 rebuilt and significantly refurbished schools; including new and improved classrooms, laboratories and kitchens.
A free nursery place for every 3 and 4 year old - extended to 15 hours per week this year, beginning to provide 10 hours a week to the most deprived 2 year olds.
Doubled the number of registered childcare places to more than 1.3 million, one for every four children under eight years old.
More young people attending university than ever before.
In 1997 more than half of all schools saw less that 30 per cent of their pupils fail to get 5 good GCSEs including English and Maths. Now only 247 schools – less than one in twelve - fail this benchmark and there are guarantees that no school should fail this mark after 2011.
Increased school funding to support the delivery of higher standards. Between 1997-98 and 2009-10, total funding per pupil has more than doubled from £3,030 in 1997-98 to £6,350 in 2009-10 in real terms, an increase of 110 per cent.


Since 1997 overall crime is down 36 per cent; domestic burglary is down 54 per cent; vehicle related crime is down 57 per cent; and violent crime is down 41 per cent.
A new flexible Australian-style points-based system for immigration to ensure only those economic migrants who have the skills our economy needs can come to work in the UK.
Police numbers up by almost 17,000 since 1997, alongside more than 16,000 Police Community Support Officers.
Every community now has its own dedicated neighbourhood police team, easily contactable by the people who live in that community and working with them to agree local priorities and deal with people’s concerns.


Thanks to Mark Watson for the above.

[Osem]

The big irony there is that under New Labour the rich have got richer and the poor have been left behind......

However don't let that stop anyone who isn't an actual or aspiring millionaire voting for them eh?....

[Neil22]

Originally Posted by Osem

However don't let that stop anyone who isn't an actual or aspiring millionaire voting for them eh?....

And you being a Tory supporter would know that wouldn't you? Sod you Jack I'm OK.

If the public school bafoons AKA The Tories ever get in power again the economy will be in ruins in no time. If you think labour politcians are untrustworthy slimeballs (which they are - don't get me wrong) wait till you see the Tory lot in action. Cameron will say ANYTHING to get in power. Um..yeah we'll save billions by being more efficient. What!!? Hardly creative cutting edge economics. The people who'll take the biggest shafting at the end of the day will be ordinary working class people and the NHS and schools will be in much much worse shape than they are now.

You wouldn't remember the Tory rule of the 80's would you? People were robbing sheep off the fields to feed their famlies because they were that skint.

Originally Posted by Neil22

Can't argue with these facts can you?? Will they be the same after a year of Tory rule? Doubt it somehow
....snipppety snip snip.....

Wow - that's really impressive; they did all that in a year.

You're right, course - no Government could equal the accomplishments of the last 13 years of New Labour. (you know, the Iraq War, diminishment of civil liberties, highest unemployment for 15 years, lowest growth, etc etc)

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Neil22

Vote for the Tories if you want your pants taking down bending over and bum raping by the millionaire gang.

If you really want to be took all the way and be sailed down the river vote Lib Dem.

If you like what we've got now albeit we are in a recession which every Government has witnessed then vote Labour.

Yep I'm loving the doubling of the national debt since 1997 along with Labour's overly optimistic plans which will still result in it being increased by another 50% over the next years and very much looking forward to leaving the next generation to pick up the bills because this one is so selfishly hooked on state and welfare and refuse to give any of it up just because it's unaffordable.

I'm sure plenty like what we've got. Shame that, through Labour's policies and disregard for fiscal responsibility, we're stealing from our children to get it. Gordon Brown has ensured that they will all have more debt, directly gained from his tenure as Chancellor and PM, than it cost to school them. Indeed interest payments have just overtaken the cost of education.

But hey, we're alright Jack, the public sector having enlarged by a million still hiring like crazy even when private enterprise is feeling the pinch and tax receipts are dropping, having ever increasing bureaucracy, more welfare, more tax credits, more wasted money going to an administration tied police, more money for the NHS being burned on non-front line services.

Through all this mass of spending and enlargement of the public sector we have the most people out of work since records began and the only group actually hiring being the government. Yes, it's our children's future they're mortgaging to do this hiring.

Of course you'll still vote Labour. If you actually believe what you wrote the minor issue of facts isn't going to bother you. Certainly doesn't bother the Labour party, it's neatly filed next to running deficits in the 'We don't care' pile.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Neil22

Can't argue with these facts can you??

I can certainly argue with these facts, I'll just pick on a couple though for now as I'm busy.

Originally Posted by Neil22

violent crime is down 41 per cent.

Try again. Labour changed the way the data was compiled in 2002. If we actually compare like for like...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-revealed.html

But now an analysis by researchers at the House of Commons library has indicated that violent crime rose from 618,417 offences in 1998 to 887,942 offences last year.

Originally Posted by Neil22

A new flexible Australian-style points-based system for immigration to ensure only those economic migrants who have the skills our economy needs can come to work in the UK.

Introduced in 2008, after 11 years of Labour rule, during which time we experienced record immigration and record emmigration by British-born citizens.

Originally Posted by Neil22

Police numbers up by almost 17,000 since 1997, alongside more than 16,000 Police Community Support Officers.

Well needed to cope with all the additional paperwork.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...ff-the-beat.do

For all officers the total amount of time spent on paperwork increased by 1.3% over two years to 19.7% in 2006/7. At the same time the total amount of time spent on patrol fell from 15.3% to 13.6%.

Couldn't be bothered with showing that the NHS is hiring more administration staff than doctors or nurses, or that there are more managers than consultants within the NHS. Sound bites are easy to copy/paste. Now let's go into something that doesn't look so hot.

In 1997 debt was at 41.2% of GDP and the country was running a surplus, prior to a recession in the 90s it had gone as low as 25.27% as the Tory governments paid the bills. We then had a fantastic debt fuelled 11 years of growth, the majority of which once the Tories' budgets had run out was spent by Gordon Brown running a deficit. In 2010 we have debt of 53.5% of GDP, this ignoring any liabilities from nationalised banks, etc, which put it a shade over 60%.

This is actually creative financing as there's another 56.6bn off the balance sheet in PFI and PPP liabilities.

The government is hoping to reduce our deficit to a mere 5.6% of GDP in 4 years and their plans have been derided as hopelessly optimistic. As a country we'll have a net public sector debt of over a trillion pounds before then end of the next government.

Those my friend are facts, you can obtain them from the Office of National Statistics and Parliament's libraries rather than sound bites from a Labour supporter.

---------- Post added at 13:53 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------

While we're discussing all that you might get a kick out of this:

Over the last decade, there has been a rapid increase in government spending. OECD figures show that the UK increased total government outlays from 36.6 per cent of GDP in 2000 to a projected 53.4 per cent in 2010. That is a 45.9 per cent increase against a 15.7 per cent increase across the developed world.

Treasury figures suggest that Total Managed Expenditure has risen from 36.3 per cent of GDP in 1999-00 to 48.1 per cent in 2010-11. Based on European Central Bank research estimates of the effect of spending increases on growth, that increase in spending may be reducing the trend rate of growth by 1.53 percentage points.

The same analysis suggests that GDP in 2010-11 is already £111 billion lower than it would have been without the increase in spending since 2000. That is equivalent to over £4,000 per family.

Labour are spending money at a similar rate, as a % of GDP, to Sweden, a country where taxation is nearly 50% of the entire country's income, close to the rate of France and are spending more as a % of the economy than Germany or the Netherlands.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Neil22

And you being a Tory supporter would know that wouldn't you? Sod you Jack I'm OK.

If the public school bafoons AKA The Tories ever get in power again the economy will be in ruins in no time. If you think labour politcians are untrustworthy slimeballs (which they are - don't get me wrong) wait till you see the Tory lot in action. Cameron will say ANYTHING to get in power. Um..yeah we'll save billions by being more efficient. What!!? Hardly creative cutting edge economics. The people who'll take the biggest shafting at the end of the day will be ordinary working class people and the NHS and schools will be in much much worse shape than they are now.

You wouldn't remember the Tory rule of the 80's would you? People were robbing sheep off the fields to feed their famlies because they were that skint.

You're making one hell of a lot of assumptions there! Firstly, I'm not a Tory, don't allign myself with any party and feel ashamed to say I actually believed Bliar in 1997 and voted for him! Secondly I do very well remember the 80's thanks - I had an ordinary job a mortgage and sky high interest to pay then just like so many other people. Unlike the rose tinted specs brigade who can bear no criticism when it comes to New Labour's appalling record, I can bring myself to criticise some of what went on then. However, that's totally irrellevant to today after 13 years of Bliar and Brown supposedly putting everything right when in fact they've wasted and lost ££billions that could and should have been properly spent on the NHS, our schools etc.

As for Cameron (or anyone else for that matter) being prepared to say anything to gain power, well the biggest example of a party doing that has been New Labour under Blair and Brown since 1997. Lies, spin, lies, spin, more lies and more spin..... I've been casting my eye over their previous manifestos and the same old promises appear again and again but that doesn't appear to register with you. I've had enough of Brown taking away my civil liberties, peeing my taxes up against the wall and forcing future generations into debt when he's not out there being 'prudent', 'saving the world' and 'abolishing the cycle of boom and bust'.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Neil22

You wouldn't remember the Tory rule of the 80's would you? People were robbing sheep off the fields to feed their famlies because they were that skint.

That was because they were on strike AGAIN

[punky]

Originally Posted by Damien

Very droll.

It should be "Do you hate the rich?" with a yes arrow going to the Lib Dems.

I do agree with a good portion of the Lib Dems but can't stand Clegg's eat-the-rich class war he's waging. Where equality means the rich have to pay for everything and subsidise everyone else.

Also the Tories don't hate foxes - didn't the party whip go with allowing fox hunting?

Out of curiosity, where is the bnp during these "live" debates?

Originally Posted by Slyder

Out of curiosity, where is the bnp during these "live" debates?

Sitting at home?

[speedfreak]

well I've changed my mind, Im going to stick with Labour now Gordons starting to grow on me but then I did like Blair

I apologise, it was me being sarcastic. I only ask as I find it disgusting in a country where "equal opportunities" means so much to the bigwigs, then how the hell do they justify leaving them out ? The whole thing is a farce and the winner, decided weeks before the general public is told.